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We seem to need some background where our paint-scheme comes from.
Can be provided.

1) Where to look for RG paint-scheme?

-WD Dec 2002 / Index astartes IV ( good source, both pre-heresy and later scheme inside)
-Codex SM ( problematic, 1998 has only 1 RG marine, 2004 + 2008 got more pics but doesn't fit right )
-Insignium astartes ( in general good source, but different to both: IA and C: SM after 2000. )
-Space marine hobby compendium ( very good normally, but suffers for RG the "studio mistake")
-HH: visions of ... (nice artbook, but not enough to see from the marines and issues with even the side of the chapter badge)

2) What is the "studio mistake"?

- In codex SM 2004+8 GW used the studio army and those models are painted with "artists impression".
so they look nice, but are not compatible with previous paint-scheme or codex astartes scheme.

3) more differences?

- codex SM 1998 and insignium astartes are compatible. Both show an all black marine.
- WD and IA followed later and expanded the RG scheme to pre-heresy, also changing the actual scheme.
The RG had then a pre-heresy scheme ( colors inside) and a after-heresy scheme ( color at rims).
- Codex SM 04+08. Shows studio army ( incompatible scheme) and some RG models inside. (08 managed to get the
tactical marks wrong at one model = vet+assault at the same time.)
- HH Visions of ... has a compatible to C: SM 98+ insignium astartes scheme, but can't decide to place the chapter badge
( 2x left + 2x right ). Seems the artist tried to show the chapter at all cost.
- SMHC : Best source for general info how to paint marines. But still used the studio army and missed also the point
in the listing of the chapters when RG was shown with red shoulderpad-rim ( other chapters had standard rims ).


so we got either an all black scheme or 2 different ways to paint the shoulderpad rims.

4) which material trumps here?

- none. All sources are GW. Maybe the release date can help to decide or just personal opinion.
- one fine quote: "Marines shall change their tactical markings to confuse the enemy" from InsigniumAstartes.
Seems everyone gets his chance to be right.

My personal preference is IA. Because it has a relation between te past and the future with the way it does the examples.
The old "all black" could be also acceptable but is maybe a little dull.
Studio-style paint-scheme has the drawback of ignoring IA and codex astartes.

Will add a pic here.

here's what ive got for the markings:





hope this helps out

Good pic, ENSIS

Thanks.

Should find the whole image from IA someday.

There are a variety of different ways to paint Raven Guard, and all of them can be, technically, correct. As you said, since everything we know comes from GW, none of it trumps the rest of it. Personally, I think an individual strike force could have different paint schemes and all the likes, since I don't think it's beyond the Raven Guard to alter their armour based on tactical circumstances or for other reasons.

It is stated in the Space Marines codex that different companies typically can have slightly different insignia and colour schemes. I say as long as the armour is predominantly black and the raven insignia is shown on the model, anything else should be good to go.

Personally, I'm planning on a mostly black and white scheme, with blue lenses and metal details, to represent a smaller strike force rather than a generic portion of the chapter.

Yeah, blue lenses are the way to go

Blue Lenses and blue shoulder trims look amazing for RG. Trust me.

Top job Fhad in illustrating all that,do sticky it so that new Ravens can be pointed this way.

I fully agree with Nemesis, as long as they are black and have the chapter badge then you are good to go. The confusion actually helps me in that I dont like either method, so developed my own along with fluff.

8th company insignia fluff:

Captain Feros Levitas has the rim of his right shoulder pad red in honour of brothers lost. The 8th was depleted by a massed dark eldar attack that left the company at less than 50%. When promoted to Captain, Levitas opted to have the red to symbolize the memory and passion to rebuild.

All units attached to his command have opted to do this too, including tac squads and veterans, even vehicles.

ta-da! justified

Removed link just incase its problems with Intellectual Property Law.

I can PM the link if anyone wants, but there is a PDF out there of the information. (Its too bad GW doesn't sell those older ones for 1/2 or 1/4 the price as PDF new players would buy that stuff up I bet... I know I would)

probably should remove the link, just to be on the safe side of IP issues.

it is a nice find, so if people want to read it, they should pm you for the link, ive also bookmarked it, so i can provide that through PM.

Done and done

I'm back.

First the announced pic:



On the left side are the pre-heresy markings and on the right side the after-heresy markings.
Notice that GW didn't insert pre-heresy veterans, instead mentioned the white arms/shoulderpad.

One thing to remember: the chapter/Legion badge was always a white raven on a black shoulderpad, also black rims.

This paint-scheme has the benefit of relating the old colors to the actual ones. Interesting here is that the RG seems to
not use troop/company markings before 2nd founding.
After reorganization the RG may have used tactical marks from codex astartes (but they are really close to the legions markings, so maybe not a great deal) and its possible that the RG also used numerals on kneepads or crusade-badges.

Second:

Found only one Box with a RG marine on it. This was the 5x metal veterans and the RG marine got painted in black,
with white arms/shoulderpad/helmet, dark red "loincloth". No company or troop marks.

Third:

Needed differences. Sometimes the RG doesn't fight alone. For better identification it is recommended to use different
"heraldry", thus the RG may be not looking like any other chapter.

These marines are black too:

- Black templars. Have a black&white scheme.
- DA Ravenwing. Have a all black scheme.
- Iron Hands. Have a black scheme with a lot of metal.

So i would suggest to think not only about which possible RG-scheme to follow but also keep in mind how your RG will
look next to oter marines. Could be funny to have a table full of black marines until you have to retrieve them.

Therefore i would include some ideas here:

RG is most black as 3+X other chapters. Additional the RG can't claim much colors as their own.
Maybe try to differ the RG at the shoulderpads, helmets, weapon casings, eye lenses, tactical marks used.

To do so remember:

- BT = black, white Shoulderpad / black badges, black helmet, black weapons, a lot of scrolls/parchments.
BT vets = black, black + red shoulderpad, white helmet, gold/brass weapons, robes in red/bleached bone.

- DA Ravenwing = black, black shoulderpads / white badges, black helmet, red weapons, robes bleached bone.

- Iron Hands = black, black shoulderpads / white badges, black helmet, weapons and bionics all metal.

- all of those 3 are shown with red lenses.

Options for RG:

- white weapon casings ( good to seperate us, but bad in a nightfight)
- colored shoulderpad rims. ( maybe follow IA )
- resist to use white helmets. Instead white arms?
- no red lenses. Possible to use yellow, green, blue, and still look good.
- resist to model RG as 11th century knights. ( thats the job of the BT).
- less seals, scrolls and whatever more religuos chapters field.

Fourth:

Decisions:

-either follow IA or codex astartes. (forget those pics in the codices as paint-scheme too many mistakes in those).
-if you dislike something from the paint-scheme but like the "Legion"/ rules, get a successor chapter and have fun.
-keep your RG different from other marines, its tactical valuable to be not recognized but there is no "shadow" to hide
when playing 1 opponent. Respect them and show youre colors.
-post your army at SoC. We don't eat anyone and have never ignored pics.


Fifth:

I think thats all for now.....

Outstanding contribution Fhad, have some karma for your efforts!

I'd be intersted to hear which method people use and why, or maybe just add a poll!

Fhad does hit a good point in keeping our RG looking RG. Its very easy to hit a BT or IH scehem without thinking.

if i remember correctly, according to the IA, the RG have company number on the left knee, and squad number on the right knee.

this is not to say that anyone/everyone MUST go this route.

i personally am going with a hybrid pre-heresy marking on the shoulders (there will be additional information on this later, once everything is painted up, including all squad markings )

The IA shows or tells nothing about squad/company markings.

In fact, according to the IA, ensisferrae
's post above are the PRE-heresy marks. Fhadhq's drawing show the post-heresy markings on the right side.

It would seem to me, based on the IA, that squad afiliation is simply to the squad type. This is in-line with the idea that the RG do not use identifiers in order to shroud their orgnization from the enemy.

@RACE.
good point.

To shroud tactical marks is useful to shroud youre numbers, go unremembered even when spotted, hide the identity of the (deserved) threat,
keep specialists alive (snipers), and maybe more i can't think of now.

So its possible to use a company color ( if youre following the UM's guidance) or company symbol ( if youre more impressed with SW / BA ).

Personally I do like to ignore troop-numbers at all and can't be moved to choose a company.

But it depends on the chapters nature. A more "knightly" chapter may field colors with pride. Still feeling the RG isn't "knights-in-space" .

I think the RG uses no company identifiers to mask numbers. Am I fighting 1 company? Did the whole CHapter Land? I've killed 10 marines, yet they keep coming... am I even killing them?

The War of 1812 had a great story in it (I'll keep out which side was which, as I don't want to spark USA vs Canada/England).

One General marches up to a fort that needs taking, he has a small amount of troops, and some native indians. The chief of the indians is a pretty smart fellow, he starts marching his indians through a forest around the forest and back through the forest, basically from overhead a giant O.

The enemy commander snug in his fort looks out over the tree's and see's countless savages screaming and hollering calling for scalps, and believes he's out number 10-1 and gave up the fort with little to no fight... simply because the Chief masked his numbers.

I think that sounds very RGish to me.

As well there is nothing Knightly in the RG... they hit and run, strike weak points, use gorrilla tactics(attack supply lines, power stations etc), Knightly is Dark Angels, I don't see the RG bothering with showing their "Pride" with their colors so to speak, they go get in, get the job done, and leave, and probably don't even get any credit, which honestly is how we like it no?