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hope it works out well for you m8 remember to tell us your findings

Hmm - briefly harking back to the assault terminators... Do you think that fleet is sufficient to mitigate their desperate need for a transport?

Over two turns in a landraider they have a (2x12+6) = 30 inch assault range.

With fleet they should travel (2x6+7+6) = 25 inches on average. The question is, is this sufficient?

Personally, i would calculate it from a fleet roll of 1 as opposed to 6. Because you'll definitely get that 1" fleet, it's more certain.

Never thought of that before, but i may use that alot more often now, after being put off with the "average dice roll of a d6 is 3" rule", which in the case of my dice is completely WRONG!

Honestly though, my men have such high morale they always wanna move 5 or 6

reading this is very nice and some good ideas have popped up, have you thought about scouts as dedicated assault units.
In upcoming tourny a player is taking 50 scouts scout bikers and a assault squad with shrike all with melta bombs in there power weapons etc. Now i run assault squad chaplin and 2 10 man scout squads as my assault force then 3 pods 2 dreads 1 assault squad as back up. Also i noticed you said chaplin stops you infiltrating where does it say this? he joins the unit and shrike gives the unit infiltrate does it not....

Oh please dont start that argument again. Check around the forums, that has been argued both ways to death. Attaching a Chaplain and Assault Squad to Shrike requires an FAQ or ask your opponent for permission - thats all i'm going to say on that.

As for scout assault forces, i've used them a couple of times. They performed well and left lots of points spare for other things, but ultimately I just prefer rapid firing bolters and melta guns over massed scout assault spam.

CR

We have a local rule at the club about sportsmanship : When a situation seems overpowered to the majority of members, we deny it.
And that's the case for infiltrating other IC with Shrike.

I find it to be in general a good rule.

Let's figure a 10 terminator squad + librarian + chapelain (all in termies armor) + assassin infiltrating with Shrike... Please, don't do this !

i have never infiltrated terminators in my life thats very unfluffy, and not in raven spirit there a fast army and have preferences on speed. 2. an assassin my never join a squad so that will never happen even if you wanted to,

And as final say on it as i have read topics and seen where it goes. But it does say he grants any model in his squad with infiltrate as no one has it at the start, its a codex special rule an as any number of IC's can form a squad and multiple IC's can join a unit making a squad then shrike gives the benefit ""to all models in his squad"" of infiltrate not they have it they benefit from the ability. if shrike joins another squad later on in the game they benefit from "infiltrate" aswell although obviously it has no real benefit after first turn.
just something to think about

nooo, bad spike, bad spike! Try and keep everything on topic and if you're interested in that debate, there are two locked threads that will keep you busy =)

Back to the topic,



Erm, I dont think you can. Standard FOC = 2HQ, Libby + Chappy + Shrike = 3, + inquisitor, which is needed to take an assassin = 4. Now, in an Apoc sized game, then do go for it because you can! But in a standard game, thats not only over 500points on HQ, but also not possible with the standard FOC.




I dont consider it 'unfluffy' and i dont think some of the others here do either.
Infiltrating is only used when needed, and only put into effect when its outcome has a real impact on the enemy army.
The Raven Guard (in my mind at least) would make use of the most suitable unit available to take care of a portion of the enemy, while supporting them in the best means available with other units in the army.

If the target is, say, a daemon prince, then infiltrating 5 TH/SS termies with Shrike would be the best solution - possibly not the cheapest, but damn it would do the job! Again, if the target is a 30strong mob of orks, then 5 LC termies, infiltrated right next to them, would seriously do the job while taking little damage in the process!

While you consider them to be a fast army with a preference for speed, they are in my opinion an army that favors speed only when speed gives them the edge over their enemy and in cases where speed isnt the best option, then they adjust their tactics and their deployment to suite, unlike Blood Angels, who just want to go fast and fight like l00ns! ("Da red wunz go fasta!")

CR

While very effective i agree there but every game i play against ork horde armies, shrike chappy and assault squad have managed to wipe out 30 man ork squad with ease. sorry for use of "forbidden" topic, but if you can picture terminators infiltrating then kudo's! but shrike is renouned for his veterans "shrikes wing" and yes vangaurd set up as such is very expensive. But a suite of tactical dreadnought armour hiding in the bush's makes alot of sense....


Its more of a power gaming option and just as effective as the Chaplin assault squad option which is more acceptable fluff wise i'll leave to you guys? i know my choice.

Infiltrating assault termies is not the forbidden topic, there is no forbidden topic. Just a very contentious one (about an IC infiltrating by joining Shrike and his unit), you would be wise not to bring it up.

Anyway, I don't really like infiltrating termies...It's not as strong as people think. Because really, they can't get that first turn assault, they even slow down shrike. Not very good in my opinion.

Hey, sorry, I didn't write this to say infiltrating termies was bad

Just that infiltrating 10 termies PLUS other IC's was really a little too cheesy.
But I agree with CR, I can see a shadow captain bringing near as possible a 5 squad of assault terminators when
facing such horrors as Daemon Prince, it doesn't sound unfluffy for me.
(But i have to admit than 10 Tactical Dreadnought Armor hiding in the high grass is too much for me too ^^)

Anyway as Sy said, to stay on topic, there is a rule that tell an IC remove infiltrating abilities of a squad if joining them in deployment.
So the entire debate is : is Shrike or the chaplain thats join the unit first ?

To our club, the fact that a rule exists to prevent other IC than Shrike from benefit of infiltrating means no other IC
may use the From the shadow we strike rule.

But it's still a point of view. 5th was made for people choose themselves their right way to play.
If your friends or local club think it should be like this, then why not ?

Keep it on topic!

The aim of this particular tactica is look at Shrike and his uses.Yes there is that grey area..one that has warranted two locked topics.

To further the topic look at other units that Shrike can join, or tactics not discussed in my original post.

This post does not give a rats furry behind whether Shrike can have a pal with him or not when he joins a unit - this is not the place.

On with the show...

About Shrike & Fleet,
In my last game vs IG, I stole the initiave, but I encountered a Dawn of War deployment.

Then I realised that in 1/3 of games, you cannot deploy Shrike with its Assault Squad,
because of 1 HQ, 2 Troops limit in this scenario. Nasty, eh ?.

You can use Fleet tactica to counter this, deploying instead a tactical squad (skilled in HtH) at around 13' behind some ruins,
for example), and making your assault squad Deep Strike.

You just have to make your tactical run in the shoot phase.
It's good to have fleet because deploying at 12' is not always possible because
cover must hide you completely.

Two learnings from this :

With Shrike & Fleet :
- Always have a skilled tactical HtH squad (IE powerfist or power weapon, flamers maybe)
- A Vanguard squad is more useful in a Dawn of War scenario than a normal Assault Squad
(except vs Mobs, where 2 flamers and 10 member proved more useful to me).
That's because Vanguard will use Heroic Intervention, gaining one turn of assault, comparing to classic squad.

If you cannot infiltrate in 13~14', what would you do with Shrike, (assuming you get the initiative ?)
In my last game that happened to me.
I infiltrated Aajz Solari with an AT tactical squad instead.
So I had him charge alone the Imperial Guard Command Squad, and the rest of the squad shooting at a vehicule.
This was a bold move, to destroy the orders providers, and it was successful, but I had luck.

Next time, I maybe won't do this, I could lose my shadow captain too easily.
Any advice ?