Tactica: Shrike and Fleet

Levitas · **Posted:** Thu Mar 05, 2009 5:48 pm

SyNidus wrote:

Something that i forgot to mention earlier is this:

IMO, you don't take Shrike for fleet...What you do take him for is for his infiltrate. It just adds so much in terms of deployment, that i keep him just for that. The ability to come in anywhere, be it infiltrating, outflanking, or deepstriking just adds so much tactically. Personally, that's where the fluffiness comes from. You may not get to change your list to suit your opponent, but Shrike gives you options to change your tactics, your style to suit each opponent.

The fleet is a bonus. What i like is the fact that it really helps drop pod tacticals stay mobile. Also, something that most people overlook is that RG scouts can do something other scouts can't: First turn assault.

Infiltrating in the open is more than 18"(i.e. 18.5") so, even with the scout move (move 6 forward) you're still out of range of the first turn assault. With Shrike on the other hand, your scouts are GUARANTEED to reach assault first turn, because even if you roll a 1", you're in.

Now you may be wondering, why this is so good. Here's the thing...instead of assaulting a squad with them, assault a vehicle. On the first turn, it will be auto-hit on the back armour with your krak grenades.

So turn 1, you'll already have him down by at the very least 1 tank. And this is only counting the scout squad. What about your infiltrated vanguard?

Also, today in my game against ultras, my drop pod tacticals first walked into position to assault his sternguards. But during the course of shooting, my speeders wiped that squad out. So, instead of waiting to get charged by the nearby assault squad, they fleeted and charged the assault squad.

Then when trying to reach an objective on the far end, my tacticals moved 6, fleeted 6, and charged a rhino, allowing them to advance more rapidly than others.

All this is due to fleet. You don't need a list centered around the fleet, just remember to use it when you need to.

So good I need to add this to the original fleet post. A scout unit at under 100 points can realistically take out a 250pt LR on turn 1, giving the sgt a combi melta and melta bombs. A very nice tactic and one I will be using! It will also need a mention in the scout tactica when someone gets that underway.

Race Bannon · **Posted:** Thu Mar 05, 2009 9:58 pm

First turn assault means not infiltrating in the open, correct? Also, how do you avoid line of sight in order to get within 18" deployment?

It seems to me that a first turn assault is very situational depending on terrain and not actually possible every game. Terrain being the variable.

Am I missing something?

Levitas · **Posted:** Thu Mar 05, 2009 10:39 pm

You can set up 18" in plain sight or 12" if out of line of sight of all enemy units. So You can infiltrate in the open. Granted, you will require the first turn and hope your opponent does not steal the Initiative.

Then scout move 6", move 6" (shoot or run, depends on situation) then charge and grenade it. Only way your opponent can stop it is if he has infiltrators and cancels out your possible deployments (which has happend to me a few times with good players)

Just be aware that your scouts will then probably be wiped out if you blow the tank up or not, so keep the cost down. Still, nice way to take out land raiders full of berserkers etc.

Its also very sneaky, most players wont realize what your doing first time you do it. Just think that your being stupid with your scouts deployment!

White Raven Jaspercation · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 1:31 am

I can just see it now

"Haha what are you doing, your scouts are dead

"
"yup i know, so you wanna steal the initiative?"
"nah i'll let you go i aint afraid of some scouts"

+++move+++fleet+++assualt

Land raider dead, shrike and vanguard in amongst his troops, sternguard deployed with dreadnought in front of the army via drop pod

"still not scared of them?"

:P

LordAK · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:09 am

That sounds good theoretically. But like Bannon said, there's a lot of factor that might hinder this from happening. And I agree with what Levitas said, infiltrate is almost impossible with good players. Remember, meltabombs aren't AP1 so you still need 5+ to hurt that big chunk of metal. That means 2/3 of times you'll fail, and you've got only 1 chance.

But if we really wanna do it then i guess we have a few things to consider:
i. keeping it small (so they can hide)
ii. make them cheap (coz they're expendable).
iii. dont go after the Land Raider. You have only 1 chance. Di like what Synidus mentioned and go against other vehicles with rear armour of 10. That way those kraks can do something.

On fleet. 20++ Assault Terminators with fleet are the scariest fleet combo out there. But that isn't RG isn't it

SyNidus · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:18 am

Lev, remember that the rule is more than 18"...i.e. 18.1+" is fine, so if you want to assault the vehicle, shooting is not possible.

Race Bannon, Scouts have the scout rule now.

Absolutely agree with LordAK on all 3 points.

Something to remember is that this tactic(first turn blowing up some armour) works best when you have at least 2 drop pods coming in on the first turn.

So what you'll have attacking the enemy on first turn is this:

1 Shrike+Vanguard
2 Drop Pods
1 Scout Squad
2 Landspeeders

First turn you can bring alot of firepower to bear, and take out units that are critical to his survival. And here, i'm not talking theoretical. This is precisely what my opponents face when i have first turn and it has worked brilliantly everytime.

Race Bannon · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 12:52 pm

OH!

Scout move 6"
Movement 6"
Run move 1" (at worst)
Fleet 6"

Those are the numbers I was not seeing in my head. First turn assaults. Hmm. So terrain is a variable that is removed entirely. The new variable must be opposing infiltrator deployment. And of course this is dependent on first turn.

Or is it? With the flexibility of the scout move, the unit has increased it's deployment range. But the further out you deploy the riskier the plan becomes for each inch.

So yes, I definitely agree with SyNidus that the assaulting scouts need someform of back-up or they become too obvious in purpose for their deployment, unless you are going first, then it becomes moot. One DP is not enough.

Very nice, I'll have to give this a try

TrentLanthier · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 2:16 pm

I was under the impression that Fleet only let you assault AFTer you run.

IN other words it doesn't give you another 6" just lets you assault after you run d6"

Hadrian · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:04 pm

Race Bannon wrote:

OH!

Scout move 6"
Movement 6"
Run move 1" (at worst)
Fleet 6"

I think its 6" scout move, 6" movement, Run move of between 1 & 6, AND a 6" charge. The Run move of 1-6 in combination with the 6" Charge into close combat is "fleet". There's not technically a "fleet" move to the best of my knowledge.

In that scenario, you're going to have some degree of lethality from 19" to up to 24" out.

Another awesome thread guys - thanks. I had never thought of using Scouts as TankHunters, but I'm already re-considering my army list to account for this option now.

One question though - what is the strength of Krak grenades? I see the bit in the rulebook about autohits on vehicles that have not moved. And I found the 6+D6 entry for Krak grenades. Is that the value to use when determining damage from Krak grenades, or is there a different modifier or value to use?
What is the range on thrown grenades? The rule book from the AOBR boxed set is pretty sparse on grenade details.

Thanks for the info and thanks for the awesome tips.

~Hadrian

Quixote · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 3:59 pm

I prefer the Land Speeder Storm first turn charge. But this tactic fails miserably when your opponent fields nothing but dreads.

White Raven Jaspercation · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:12 pm

SyNidus wrote:

So what you'll have attacking the enemy on first turn is this:

1 Shrike+Vanguard
2 Drop Pods
1 Scout Squad
2 Landspeeders

First turn you can bring alot of firepower to bear, and take out units that are critical to his survival. And here, i'm not talking theoretical. This is precisely what my opponents face when i have first turn and it has worked brilliantly everytime.

it'd be interesting to hear if you think this is how the raven guard should fight?

Hadrian wrote:

Another awesome thread guys - thanks. I had never thought of using Scouts as TankHunters, but I'm already re-considering my army list to account for this option now.

One question though - what is the strength of Krak grenades? I see the bit in the rulebook about autohits on vehicles that have not moved. And I found the 6+D6 entry for Krak grenades. Is that the value to use when determining damage from Krak grenades, or is there a different modifier or value to use?
What is the range on thrown grenades? The rule book from the AOBR boxed set is pretty sparse on grenade details.

Thanks for the info and thanks for the awesome tips.

~Hadrian

Krak grenades have a base strength of 6 plus whatever you roll on a D6 dice (so your talking str 7 - str 12) but they have to have assualted a vehicle so think of your marines scrambling onto a tank and throwing a grenade into the hatch, the same is for melta bombs but obviously with a higher strength.

The only way grenades have distance rules is if your playing the Movie Marines rules whichi would reccomend.

Quixote · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:29 pm

Don't forget the Tyranid Hunters used to be able to toss grenades at people.

White Raven Jaspercation · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 7:52 pm

Quixote wrote:

Don't forget the Tyranid Hunters used to be able to toss grenades at people.

oh yeah i wanted to collect nid hunters just for that

and the wealth of conversions, perhaps i'll bribe evolved to let me convert some for him

anyways sorry for going off topic.

Levitas · **Posted:** Fri Mar 06, 2009 10:28 pm

Ok, keep it on topic. If any wants to do a scout tactica then go for it.

I think its fair to say that fleet combined with a very cheap scout unit can threaten tanks. I'd still throw them at an LR as the risk is worth it. They take up vast amounts of points and are usually central to your opponents list and plans.

yay fleet! But as Sy and others point out, have back up fast.

Race Bannon · **Posted:** Mon Mar 09, 2009 7:55 pm

Erm ... I was trying to figure out how to get a first turn charge, deploying in the open.

No matter what, this Tactica has helped me because my DIY specifically mentions Scouts as tank-hunters as their primary combat role after recon. This week I'm giving this tactic a try!

sonsofcorax.freeforums.org

Tactica: Shrike and Fleet

Who is online

Panel