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 Post subject: Tactica: Master of the Forge
PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 1:33 pm 
White Raven
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27 days ago, I released my Chapter Master & Honour Guard Tactica, which was met by the sound of crickets and the occasional tumbleweed bowling past simply because no-one really uses those units. Now I’m back with Tactica #5 and I’m expecting the same response, but here goes…

Tactica: Master of the Forge

Intro:
To a Raven Guard Commander, the Master of the Forge (MotF) is little used. Their place is overseeing the repair of our vehicles, not fighting with their battle-brothers, but are we wrong in this assumption? Are we failing ourselves and our Chapter in some way? Let’s take a look.

Master of the Forge: Pros and Cons

Pros
- Cheap, as cheap as a stock Librarian, Chaplain or Captain.
- Bolster Defences, increasing unit survivability.
- Blessing of the Omnissiah, increasing vehicle survivability.
- Free Artificer Armour and Servo-Harness
- Conversion Beamer – need I say more?
- Take all Dreadnought variants as Heavy Support units as well as Elites (potential 6 Dreadnoughts in 1 army)
- Allows Servitors to be taken

Cons
- Poor stats for a HQ – the low WS really lets him down.
- Limited wargear options, especially compared to the Captain of equal cost!
- Cannot take Jump Pack (but that is to be expected)
- Limited threat range

Summary
Going over the Pros and Cons, there are several reasons why to take a MotF, yet his ability in battle is limited by his basic WS and limited wargear, but he is far from useless.

Tactics and Employment

Builds, Battle Roles and Deployment
Unlike other units, the wargear you give to the MotF directly effects how he will be used on the field, and that in turn directly effects the optimal deployment method, so for this Tactica, we’re going to keep everything together in one easy to follow format. So here goes:

Build 1.) Dread-Guard Master
Master of the Forge with no upgrades
Cost: 100points


Inspired by Quixote’s “Fennias Maxim’s Honour Guard”, a standard, un-upgraded Master of the Forge is taken to simply make the best use of the special rules he grants – Dreadnoughts as Heavy options, and Bolster Defences. The role of the MotF is simple and can work two ways.

Build 1 – Battle Role 1. Utilising several long-range Dreadnoughts or a combination of Dreadnoughts and other Elites choices such as Terminators, the MotF is deployed on foot in cover and bolstered defences to protect the few troop choices that were taken. During battle he provides much needed repairs on the Dreadnoughts while providing support to the rest of the army. An army of 6 Venerable Dreadnoughts in this fashion is what I’ve come to know as a Maxi-Dreadnought firing line, and can deal out damage like no other I’ve encountered.
(As a side-note, 6 Venerable Dreadnoughts with Assault Cannons comes in at just over 1000points, add to that two 10strong Tactical Squads and the MotF, you’ve got a 1500point list with all damage results able to be re-rolled and a way to repair destroyed weapons! Switch Tacticals for Scouts and points become available for TL-Las or others!)

Build 1 – Battle Role 2. Utilising several close-combat Dreadnoughts or a combination of Dreadnoughts and other Elite choices such as Sternguard, the MotF accompanies another unit during deployment, leading the assault on the enemy via Drop Pod or Rhino, with the Dreadnoughts arriving amidst the enemy on the first turn. This makes little use of the Bolster Defences special rule, yet maximises the potential for the Dreadnoughts and other close-ranged specialists, allowing them to work right where they perform best while providing support and repairs when needed.

Build 2.) Master of the Horde
Master of the Forge with a Combi-Flamer or Combi-Plasma
Cost: 110points


Unlike other HQ options, the MotF has a nice little trick thanks to his Harness – He can fire two ranged weapons per turn, either the Twin-Linked Plasma Pistol and Flamer on his Harness, or his normal weapon and one weapon from his Harness. This really has potential!

Build 2 – Battle Role 1. Deploying in a static firing line against a MEQ (Marine Equivalent) army, firing two Bolter or Plasma shots plus the Twin-Linked Plasma Pistol, a potential 3 AP2 hits makes this 110point model very effective against groups of traitors, Necrons and the likes. Combined with his 2+ armour save, he needs to be really unlucky in order to perish from Gets Hot! Similarly, deploying in a static firing line against a Green Tide or Nid army, firing the Flamer on the harness plus two Bolter shots or a Flamer template from a Combi-weapon means this modal can quickly dispatch large numbers of weaker models within assault range. When the inevitable happens, and the MotF becomes locked in combat, he gets two extra I1 S8 power weapon attacks on top of his normal 2 attacks, making him more than capable of dispatching yet more enemies.

Build 2 – Battle Role 2. Deploying in a transport, the MotF pops out practically on top of the enemy, shooting as he comes, supported by the attached unit for a potential 4 flamer templates that can be thrown in one turn (Tac squad with Flamer & Combi-flamer), or 6 plasma shots (Tac squad with Plasma gun & combi-plasma). Say goodbye to over half of what ever it was that knocked on their door. Popping out of a Drop pod on turn one, this deployment method is always a great way to greet your enemies!

Build 3.) Power of the Master
Master of the Forge with a Plasma Pistol and Thunder Hammer
Cost: 140points


This guy is a power-house, packing a Twin-linked Plasma Pistol on his Harness plus the Plasma Pistol in his hand, that’s some serious anti-MEQ kick right there. To make it worse on the enemy, he can then assault, throwing 5 PowerFist-like hits on the charge. He needs lots of support, but he is basically a walking menace to society, and damn its fun to play.

Bulid 3 – Battle Role. The whole reason to take this build is for assault against HQs, Vehicles and Monstrous Creatures (MC’s), so deploying the MotF with a Tactical or Sternguard Squad with similar weapons in a Rhino or Razorback for long-term survivability and mobility. Simply cruise the Transport up to the target, either a MC or Vehicle, jump out and shoot it, then next turn, charge it, or better still, jump out 12 inches away from the target, move, shoot, assault. Between the attached squad’s weapons, the Hammer and the Harness, the target will quickly be turned inside out, regardless of what it is.
For a more risky deployment, arrive via Drop Pod. The amount of plasma-love that can be thrown out will whittle down anything too close, however the MotF needs to survive long enough to make use of that expensive Hammer, and that could be a problem.


Build 4.) Master Blaster
Master of the Forge with Bolt Pistol, Conversion Beamer and Space Marine Bike
Cost: 155points


“Tired of rolling 4’s to hit with your snipers? Fed up with that 4 to wound? Put those snipers away and take a CONVERSION BEAMER today!”
OK, sales pitch over, let’s get down to it. This is pretty expensive as ‘Cheap HQ’ units go, but its all for a good reason. The Conversion Beamer is really the focal point of this build, and can be taken without the Bike for cost-cutting, however the Bike gives the Master much needed protection and mobility, granting an increase in Toughness, 24” movement and a 3+ cover save with turbo-boosters on, or normal movement with the ability to fire any weapon at full capacity thanks to the Relentless USR.

Build 4 – Battle Role 1. There is only really one way to deploy the MotF while he’s on a bike, and that is as normal. Deployment in reserve is an option, but you lose the first-turn shot from the Conversion Beamer, which brings me onto the battle role. While riding the bike, the MotF can move 12” then shoot the Conversion Beamer. This means the MotF can not only stay well out of the way of the enemy, but he can also stay far enough away to maximise the blast strength of the Beamer. On turn 1, a potential S10 AP1 blast can be thrown at the enemy, and with coordinated movement, this can continue throughout the rest of the game!

Build 4 – Battle Role 2. Tied to a unit of Marine Bikers, the MotF gains enhanced protection from the mass of other bikers, while increasing their potential by way of his Beamer. Striking fast at the enemy, a unit of bikers can cut through many softer enemies quickly with their weapons, while the S6 blast of the Beamer at close-ish range simply adds to the number of saves each unit must take, forcing the target to die through overwhelming number of shots. If that doesn’t cut it, a quick trip to CC should, with 4 attacks on the charge on his own, the MotF packs a fair punch.


Build 5.) Master of Combat
Master of the Forge with Plasma Pistol, Power Sword and Space Marine Bike
Cost: 165points


So he doesn’t have WS6 or I5, so what? What he does have is sheer number of hits, allow me to run through them with you.
2 Plasma Pistol shots – one of which is Twin-Linked
2 Base attacks using a Power Weapon
1 Extra attack for 2xCCW’s
1 Bonus attack for assault (can ignore this if you want!)
2 Bonus power weapon attacks at I1, S8 from the Harness
That gives a grand total of 8 hits on the charge that are capable of taking down MEQs, 4 of which are instant-death for IG-like units. Lets look at this build on the battle field.

Build 5 – Battle Role 1. Deployed on his own, the MotF is quite formidable. He packs a lot of CC power in a cheap package that can move faster than almost any other unit on the board, protected by increased Toughness, a Cover save from Turbo-Boosters and a 2+ Armour save. He really is a power house. Use to flank an opponents units, as the enemy will either ignore a lone biker, thinking “What’s the worst that can happen?”, or will focus a lot of effort in taking him down, which is near impossible at high speeds. Once in range, assault! With so much fire power and CC kick, small squads will die quickly and quietly to the MotF without hitting him back, or if any do survive, they will struggle to do any damage.

Build 5 – Battle Role 2. Deployed in a squad of Bikers, the MotF gains added protection while increasing the maximum potential of the combined unit. In larger numbers, head straight for the enemy, they will cause enough of a distraction to buy the rest of your army some time, and as they strike the enemy for the first time, the opponent will undoubtedly devote a great deal of effort to taking down those crazy bikers that can ultimately wipe out large numbers in a single turn.


Servitors

I have listed Servitors here as a separate section, firstly because I forgot them when I first wrote this article, and secondly, because they are a separate unit for the purpose of battle, yet considered one whole unit with the MotF (or Techmarine) on the Force Organisation Chart.

A full pro and con tactica is included in the Techmarine tactica, so all I will do here is cover the uses of Servitors with the Master of the Forge.

When on foot, a unit of 5 Servitors is a cheap and efficient way of protecting the MotF, providing bodies that can take armour-ignoring wounds instead of the Master. They also provide extra kick in either CC or shooting, with 5 Servitors dealing 10 S3 attacks and 5 S8 I1 attacks on the charge, or packing 2 heavy weapons from a selection of Heavy Bolters, Multi-Meltas or Plasma Cannons.

For a MotF on foot packing a Conversion Beamer, a pair of servitors with Plasma Cannons is an ideal upgrade at only 85points – cheaper than a Tactical Combat squad or Devastator squad with similar weapons!

For a CC-based MotF on foot, with a Power Weapon for example, five Servitors with no upgrades at all, the unit can throw a total of 21 attacks on the charge – that is 4 power weapon hits from the MotF at I4, 10 S3 hits from the Servitors at I3, then 7 S8 power weapon attacks form the combined Servo Arms and Harness – not bad for a unit with combined cost of 185points!

The down side to Servitors comes when you want your MotF on a bike – and he works best on a bike – as those Servitors don’t get the option of joining him on bikes (and rightly so! We don’t want mindless drones on high speed machines now do we?)
When the MotF is on a bike, those Servitors are once again prone to Mindlock, and with some poor dice rolling, they could stay locked for the entire game! 65 to 85 points might seem cheap for two extra heavy weapons, but they might only fire once or twice a game, limiting their ability to earn their points back, where a unit of Sniper Scouts at a similar points value wouldn’t have that problem.

Really, if you want Servitors, keep the Master on foot, else find somewhere else to spend those points, as they really don’t provide when on their own, especially in small numbers, and need to be attached to a Techmarine or Master in order to repair vehicles.



Conclusion

From the builds specified above, it is generally easy to see that the MotF doesn’t fit the usual Raven Guard pattern of ASD (Assault/Scout/Deepstrike), but he does have his place. The MotF is generally regarded as ‘just’ a support HQ, but I think different. I think he has more to offer than most would think.

Most Raven Guard players use Dreadnoughts in Drop Pods as part of their ‘Core’ army list. It seems only natural to bring in these armoured behemoths in this fashion for Raven Guard players, yet as a whole they rarely consider taking more than 3 Dreadnoughts, or rarely consider taking other elite units as well as 3 Dreadnoughts. With a MotF, 3 Dreadnoughts can be taken along side Sternguard or Terminators, giving yet more options on the battle field that directly emphasise just how the Raven Guard would employ exactly the required amount of power in the most precise and perfect way in order to maximise results.

Generally, Raven Guard players favour Assault Marines over other Fast Attack units, such as Speeders or Bikes, but this is quite unfounded. Often a well placed unit of bikers is just as effective as any unit of Assault Marines and it is on a Bike that the MotF can really do the damage. Combined with a Captain on a bike if points permit, a scoring bike unit in any army with either the Conversion-Beamer MotF, or the CC-based MotF can quickly overwhelm target units without taking so much as a scratch before the assault while being able to hold objectives 24inches from the battle for a last-turn charge. When equipped with the Conversion Beamer on a bike, the first-turn charge from Shrike’s unit can be supported by a precision explosion that is able to rip through any unit that could pose any threat while still being able to move forward in relative safety.

Ultimately, if you are in need of a cheap, powerful HQ unit, the Master of the Forge might not be what you're looking for. Try a Captain or Chaplain. If you’re looking for a HQ unit that is designed to support another unit for the whole game, again, the MotF isn't right, try the Librarian. What the Master of the Forge does offer is reliability and flexibility. He opens up options that the Force Organisation Chart (FOC) limits while providing repairs on any nearby vehicle. As a bonus, his weapons and wargear are tailored to supporting other units, yet as a stand-alone unit, he out-performs most others point-for-point. He doesn't have the close-combat skills that his peers have, what he has is something entirely different, and something they cannot match directly. Its a quality that a well tailored army list can utilise to become a brilliant army list.

The biggest problem right now with the Master of the Forge is the Conversion Beamer, which requires conversion work just to use it because it doesn’t exist! Once you’ve got something that looks suitably terrifying bolted onto your expensive MotF model, then you’re good to go, but often this conversion work is what puts some players off.



As usual, Thanks for reading, I hope you enjoyed it. C&C is welcome, and if you come across a decent ‘how to make a conversion beamer’ type thread someplace, let me know and I’ll try and get the owner to share it here =)

UPDATE
White Raven Jaspercation has just completed a wonderful video tutorial on how to build a Conversion Beamer from scratch. Its so great I just had to post it here for you all to share. A lot of respect and thanks goes to Jaspercation for doing this, its above and beyond what I expected and really does make a brilliant Conversion Beamer, just check it out for yourself!

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_IhkVNfPLm8[/youtube]


Thanks again,

CR


Edit : Added a section to cover servitors with the MotF.
Edit : Added the Conversion Beamer tutorial. Thank you VERY much Jasp =)

_________________
Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


Last edited by White Raven CleanRabbit on Thu Jun 04, 2009 8:00 am, edited 3 times in total.

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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:23 pm 
White Raven
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Excellent work, a really good look at what is possibly the least used HQ around here. It does have a very good purpose though which it does exceptionally well and after reading this i'll throw a few of those combos into a few of my games.

well done.

Ps. if you want i can have a look for any info about a conversion beamer and possibly create one and get back to you as i have a spare techmarine.

_________________
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Victorus aut Mortis = i.e glory to the black dudes with jump packs and pointy claws
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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 3:36 pm 
White Raven
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White Raven Jaspercation wrote:
Excellent work, a really good look at what is possibly the least used HQ around here. It does have a very good purpose though which it does exceptionally well and after reading this i'll throw a few of those combos into a few of my games.

well done.


*blush* thanks =)


White Raven Jaspercation wrote:
Ps. if you want i can have a look for any info about a conversion beamer and possibly create one and get back to you as i have a spare techmarine.


That would be brilliant. If you hack something together, I'd be honored to tag details or a link to the threat here =)

CR

_________________
Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:26 pm 
Reclusiarch
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No responses to the CM tactica?

Then let us say something here. :)

This tactica is ( copy jaspers post here ) and i do second we should rethink the whole HQ selection sometimes.

It may be not possible for everyone to afford several HQ models, but if, then go for it.
Nothing covers the way of a "tactical experts" Legion better than changing the army to fit against the threat.

Still not owning a MotF, but sure will.

I like your build of a MotF to move Dreads into HS, because a lot of DS armies won't use Tanks much and the Dreads free then those elite-slots.

Maybe "planetstrike" will help the MotF, multiple dreads could be nice to throw into a defensive line...

As CR said, anyone with a MotF is welcome to give us a look at. :wink:

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should not rule the galaxy!

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if youre gonna get terminators ,
get Raven Guard one.


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PostPosted: Tue May 05, 2009 4:50 pm 
White Raven
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CleanRabbit wrote:
White Raven Jaspercation wrote:
Excellent work, a really good look at what is possibly the least used HQ around here. It does have a very good purpose though which it does exceptionally well and after reading this i'll throw a few of those combos into a few of my games.

well done.


*blush* thanks =)


White Raven Jaspercation wrote:
Ps. if you want i can have a look for any info about a conversion beamer and possibly create one and get back to you as i have a spare techmarine.


That would be brilliant. If you hack something together, I'd be honored to tag details or a link to the threat here =)

CR


no probs mate, the hard part will be finding the original pictures from RT days. i'll keep you all informed anyway.

_________________
Its easier to ask for forgiveness then permission

Check out my Geekly/weekly Blog @ http://jaspercation.blog.co.uk/

Victorus aut Mortis = i.e glory to the black dudes with jump packs and pointy claws
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PostPosted: Wed May 06, 2009 9:15 am 
White Raven
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Added a section covering Servitors, considering I forgot them the first time...

CR

_________________
Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 12:41 am 
White Raven
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I like these articles alot CR. I think they have alot to offer both the beginner and the veteran as well.

I never really took the time to add up the attacks that a MotF could throw at me. Now i know to focus him with my attacks or bite a series of PF hits if i dont down him.


Its a good reminder to me that a Dread build will probably have fort. defenses on a unit of scouts for a 2+ save - so i should plan for that in deployment. I will need a way to stop the conversion beamer from shooting my LRs - and a way to dislodge scouts from behind a long line of dreads in 2+ cover.


you also make great points about MoTF fitting well in a bike army.

I think bikes work very well with almost all SM builds.

great work CR.



In a large 2500 point game, i could easily see the RG commander having no heavy support but a full elite slot - MoTF would be a great way to take ironclad / sterns /termies in a big game.

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 1:09 am 
White Raven
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Earthen wrote:
Its a good reminder to me that a Dread build will probably have fort. defenses on a unit of scouts for a 2+ save - so i should plan for that in deployment. I will need a way to stop the conversion beamer from shooting my LRs - and a way to dislodge scouts from behind a long line of dreads in 2+ cover.


The scouts in 2+ cover is an awfully good trick, takes a lot of shooting to actually start taking off wounds, and the only thing that really worries them is those weapons that ignore cover outright, Heavy flamers are a lethal way of getting rid of them. In fact the two best units to take them out are probably sternguard or dreadnaughts (haven't got the guard codex yet :()

in fact that is partly why i take them as a double team in drop pods. send the dread to the scouts, and the sternguard with hellfire rounds to try and take out the master of the forge.

Still your using a helluva lot of points to get rid of some cheap units.


Bike armies for marines work well cause they're one of the most durable armies, and then you add +1 to their toughness meaning most things now have to roll a 4 or a 5 to wound. Brilliant. (just remind me never to get on the wrong side of FhadHq's sandviper army :D )


Just a quick update i have the conversion beamer pretty much done just waiting for one bit. I'll buy some more bits and do a tutorial (with bitz prices) if people like it. (it's looking to be around about a £3 conversion though, so not exactly cheap for a single weapon) i'll link the picture here, and if i get the go ahead CR i'll let you know and you can either splice it into this thread or put it as a footnote to the tactica.

_________________
Its easier to ask for forgiveness then permission

Check out my Geekly/weekly Blog @ http://jaspercation.blog.co.uk/

Victorus aut Mortis = i.e glory to the black dudes with jump packs and pointy claws
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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 3:28 am 
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Wow CR, cool stuff.

I'd already planned to do Techmarine Cage (of the 10th co.) as a spare hq choice, doubling as a motf for game puposes.

Thoughts...

Does anyone have a conversion idea for putting a tm or motf on a bike?
would it be unwise to run a motf with just a power weapon, or possibly pw and a bike? I like the idea of using the cheapest version possible. It seems like this would be a good close combat monster.

Rules clarifications...?

Is the harness plasma pistol immune to gets hot, as its not on the marine?

If the motf is with shrike, do the servitors under his comand share his combat tactices? (...ergo get fleet?)

Other than how they negotiate difficult and dangerous terrain, is there issues with using a biker (motf... but really khan or any other leader too) with assualt marines?

I thought the bolster defences only effected ruins, what qualifies as a ruin?

Again, I'm probably confused, but I thought the motf wargear was what determined number of attacks, and they were resolved ay his initiative, while the 2 harness attacks were resolved at str 8 init 1...? This seems to bend the rules of how assaults work...

Lastly, I'd like to thank everybody, but especially cr for the info and the fresh look at hqs and their uses... cools stuff. Sorry if my questions are a bit obvious, I try to do my homework before I post, but ussually its something right under my nose... doh!


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 7:53 am 
White Raven
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Jaspercation wrote:
Just a quick update i have the conversion beamer pretty much done just waiting for one bit. I'll buy some more bits and do a tutorial (with bitz prices) if people like it. (it's looking to be around about a £3 conversion though, so not exactly cheap for a single weapon) i'll link the picture here, and if i get the go ahead CR i'll let you know and you can either splice it into this thread or put it as a footnote to the tactica.


That sounds great, and at £3 its hardly bank-busting, but does push the final cost of a single model up to like £15.
Feel free to splice it into this thread. If you put it into your first post (as well as somewhere else in the thread) then it'll be right underneath the Tactica and easy to get to, or I can just tag it on the end of the Tactica with all credits to you? =)

Pendrecki wrote:
Wow CR, cool stuff.

I'd already planned to do Techmarine Cage (of the 10th co.) as a spare hq choice, doubling as a motf for game puposes.


Thanks! I would love to see Techmarine Cage in action! Sounds like a good choice! If you ever do get to use him, let me know what you think of him!


Pendrecki wrote:
Does anyone have a conversion idea for putting a tm or motf on a bike?

Erm.... Captain Hacksaw, wanna help out here?

I know the Techmarine with Servo-Harness is a metal model (hence the expense), though I expect him to come in several pieces with the harness separate from the model, letting you stick the harness onto a suitable biker. The arm with the power axe might be separate too, but I'd have to buy one to let you know (which I plan on doing!) Really, all you need is a normal marine biker with some quality little changes to his armour, the power axe arm, harness and head from the Techmarine model.

Pendrecki wrote:
would it be unwise to run a motf with just a power weapon, or possibly pw and a bike? I like the idea of using the cheapest version possible. It seems like this would be a good close combat monster.

Cheapest is often the best in 5th Ed. Simply taking a power weapon and no other upgrades puts the MotF at 115points, however it reduces is threat range by as much as 12 inches. Still, keep him tucked behind a vehicle during the advance and jump him out at the right time, and you've got the perfect power-fist (like) monster! =)

Pendrecki wrote:
Is the harness plasma pistol immune to gets hot, as its not on the marine?

There is still a chance that the pistol gets so hot that it damages the harness - and that is connected to his spine. He still takes Gets Hot! and can still die from them (but its twin-linked! so re-roll that 1!!!)

Pendrecki wrote:
If the motf is with shrike, do the servitors under his comand share his combat tactices? (...ergo get fleet?)

A very good question! Do Servitors get Fleet (from Combat Tactics) when attached to a MotF or Techmarine, even though Servitors do not have Comabt Tactics? Well this question really needs its own thread, but I would say yes, they do. I would say it works like ATSKNF, a unit of Servitors would receive Combat Tactics from any attached Space Marine. The problem is, it doesn't say any of that in the rules. Feel free to open this question up for debate elsewhere though =)

Pendrecki wrote:
Other than how they negotiate difficult and dangerous terrain, is there issues with using a biker (motf... but really khan or any other leader too) with assualt marines?

Bikes work well along side Assault Marines. Bikers are a little more expensive, but really are effective. Assault marines are susceptible to fire on their way to the enemy - Bikers, not so much, yet both still pack the same punch in CC.

Pendrecki wrote:
I thought the bolster defences only effected ruins, what qualifies as a ruin?

This caught me out the first time I played it. Yes, he reinforces a single ruin - whats considered a Type C cover (see cover chart on page 21 of the rule book), converting the 4+ cover save of the ruin into a 3+ cover save. Combined with scouts with camo cloaks, thats a 2+ cover save! As for what exactly constitutes a 'ruin', well, its anything that looks like it once was a building, and is now more rubble than house =)

Pendrecki wrote:
Again, I'm probably confused, but I thought the motf wargear was what determined number of attacks, and they were resolved ay his initiative, while the 2 harness attacks were resolved at str 8 init 1...? This seems to bend the rules of how assaults work...

Correct again. A basic MotF without any extra war gear has 2 base attacks at I4 plus two 'bonus' attacks from the harness at S8 I1 - its like the Harness has a mind of its own and its attacks are separate - but from the same model. Weird eh? See codex page 71 for a better description =)

Pendrecki wrote:
Lastly, I'd like to thank everybody, but especially cr for the info and the fresh look at hqs and their uses... cools stuff. Sorry if my questions are a bit obvious, I try to do my homework before I post, but ussually its something right under my nose... doh!


Thanks for the complements =)
I've got some form of obsession with HQ's and Hero's. Its the RPG player inside me, bursting out in WH40K. I actually have more HQ options than Fast Attack and Elite combined... scary! (9 HQ units vs 1 Fast and 6 Elites. lol) I do still need to buy a MotF though.

Questions are good. Without questions, we don't learn, and some of your questions are very well founded =)

Thanks again all,

CR

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We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


Last edited by White Raven CleanRabbit on Thu May 07, 2009 8:07 am, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:03 am 
White Raven
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White Raven Jaspercation wrote:
Earthen wrote:
Its a good reminder to me that a Dread build will probably have fort. defenses on a unit of scouts for a 2+ save - so i should plan for that in deployment. I will need a way to stop the conversion beamer from shooting my LRs - and a way to dislodge scouts from behind a long line of dreads in 2+ cover.


The scouts in 2+ cover is an awfully good trick, takes a lot of shooting to actually start taking off wounds, and the only thing that really worries them is those weapons that ignore cover outright, Heavy flamers are a lethal way of getting rid of them. In fact the two best units to take them out are probably sternguard or dreadnaughts (haven't got the guard codex yet :()

in fact that is partly why i take them as a double team in drop pods. send the dread to the scouts, and the sternguard with hellfire rounds to try and take out the master of the forge.

Still your using a helluva lot of points to get rid of some cheap units.


Bike armies for marines work well cause they're one of the most durable armies, and then you add +1 to their toughness meaning most things now have to roll a 4 or a 5 to wound. Brilliant. (just remind me never to get on the wrong side of FhadHq's sandviper army :D )


Just a quick update i have the conversion beamer pretty much done just waiting for one bit. I'll buy some more bits and do a tutorial (with bitz prices) if people like it. (it's looking to be around about a £3 conversion though, so not exactly cheap for a single weapon) i'll link the picture here, and if i get the go ahead CR i'll let you know and you can either splice it into this thread or put it as a footnote to the tactica.



All you really need to do to take out a unit of scouts is get a rhino with 5 marines to them, so maybe speeding past the dread line would be a way to do it. Itd be tough to manage against a good player though. Podding a tac squad would probably do it too.

Bike armies also have great AT.

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:04 am 
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I'll leave one of you guys who are more acquainted with Techmarines to answer his questions.

Good Job CR :) Keep this up and i'll have alot of tacticas to write to catch up.

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:12 am 
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SyNidus wrote:
I'll leave one of you guys who are more acquainted with Techmarines to answer his questions.

Good Job CR :) Keep this up and i'll have alot of tacticas to write to catch up.


Too right! You've got 3 more just to match me, and It's not like I'm doing one a week :P

If there are any Tacticas that you personally want to do, let me know and I'll make sure I dont do them. I've been leaving Sternguard, Chaplain, Pods and LandSpeeders because I consider those the 'high profile' tactica - ones that most people will want to read and learn, so I'm sure someone else out there would rather do them (thats a hint guys!)

Thanks though SyN, you know I only do it for your love ;)

(PS. for added giggles, you guys had posted replies while I was editing the typos out of mine! haha)

_________________
Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:42 am 
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I will gladly take sternguard and chaplains, but probably not for at least a week or so.

sternguard entry will have various weapon loadouts backed by math hammer against various targets - should be helpful.

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PostPosted: Thu May 07, 2009 8:44 am 
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Earthen wrote:
I will gladly take sternguard and chaplains, but probably not for at least a week or so.


Cool, noted =)

I'm working on something a little different from what I've done so far, and I dont think It'll be done this week, so no rush =)

_________________
Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


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