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 Post subject: Tactica: Dreadnoughts
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:08 pm 
White Raven
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Posts: 444
I've been watching the progress of the Corvus project with excitement, and now I feel its time I contributed. (I've stolen Alterecho's layout method as I like the look-and-feel of it)

The Dreadnought

Intro:
The Dreadnought is a formidable and cheap weapon that can be employed in all manner of ways, from anti-infantry duty to tank-busting. The multitude of weapon load-outs and deployment options make this a confusing but very effective unit that, when built and used right, excels where lesser men fail.

Dreadnought: Pro's and Con's

Pro's

-Armour-
Any unit that can ignore small-arms fire has an instant advantage over lesser-armoured units. Increased survivability means more time available for killing

-Relentless-
Able to move at full speed while firing all weapons is a great thing! It's a shame it moves so slowly.

-Price-
With a basic Dreadnought costing just over 100 points, it's a steal compared to other units available.

-Load Out-
Having the right weapons on the Dreadnought increases its killing efficiency dramatically, and the wide range of upgrades means there is always a weapon for the job.

Con's
-Recognizable-
Ask any player, any one at all, and they can identify a Dreadnought the moment they see it. They know instinctively that it’s a big threat, and they'll do their best to take it down early. It's as big a target as a Land Raider in enemy eyes.

-Mobility-
Even when arriving by drop-pod, a Dreadnought is a tough unit to keep in moving. Faster enemy can out-run the Dreadnought before turning back to fire at it.

-Confusing-
Such a wide arsenal of weapons means some newer players can be confused as to what to take on their Dreadnought, or how to deploy the Dreadnought with certain weapon load-outs. Hopefully this article will help clear up any confusion.

Venerable Dreadnought

Along with the above mentioned Pro's and Con's, the following applies directly to the Venerable Dreadnought

-Venerable-
The added rules for a Venerable Dreadnought allow the owner the force any result on the damage chart to be re-rolled. This is a god-send when 5's and 6's land on the first roll!

-Experienced Combatant-
The Venerable Dreadnought boasts increased skills with ranged and melee weapons, granting a higher chance to smite its target compared to the basic Dreadnought.

-Expensive-
Compared to the basic Dreadnought, the Venerable Dreadnought comes with a much higher price tag, pushing a fully upgraded Dreadnought into Terminator prices.

-Priority Target-
When the enemy commander sights a Venerable Dreadnought, it may well put the fear of the god emperor into him, but it also strengthens his resolve to take it down fast.


Ironclad

The Ironclad Dreadnought boasts similar Pro's and Con's to the basic Dreadnought as mentioned above, as well as the following:

-Harder Armour-
The increases in front and side armour mean this Dreadnought varient can shake off almost all small to medium strength fire, as well as Assault and Krak grenades, without worry.

-Siege Master-
With most weapon options being geared towards close-combat, the Ironclad can boast two close-combat weapons and get the bonus for doing so!

-Armoured Threat-
The extra armour and ability to tear through vehicles as if they were paper makes the Ironclad Dreadnought a higher priority target to the enemy commander.


-Summary-
Taking up the already crowded Elite's slot, the Dreadnought has to fight against Terminators, Sternguard, tech-marines and LotD for 'bang-for-buck'. The Dreadnought offers one of the lowest starting prices of all the Elite units, and its customisability, usability and survivability offer results none of the others can compete with, providing the Dreadnought is deployed and used right


Tactics & Employment


Rule #1: Right tool for the job

There are a variety of weapon load-outs which all have their strengths and weaknesses, each of which is again better suited to certain enemy units over others. Using the right weapon options in the right way can vastly improve the Dreadnought's killing ability. The most important thing to note is to use the right weapons against the right enemy. Flamers hurt tanks as much as Las-Cannons hurt 30-model squads of Orks.


Rule #2: Understand Close Combat.

Unless assaulting a vehicle or lone model, the Dreadnought should really avoid close combat. In almost every variant, the limited number of potential close-combat hits mean it will struggle to kill all the models in a larger infantry group that survived its shooting. Sometimes this can be beneficial, as certain enemy units are utterly unable to damage the Dreadnought, in which case keeping them locked in combat until support arrives does have its benefits.

Dreadnoughts kitted out for close-range fire power should always be supported with at least one more unit, as the combined fire-power can overwhelm almost all types of enemy providing the weapon load-out is right.

Remember that the Dreadnought always turns to face its enemy in close combat, regardless of its damage state, so the front armour is always used when the enemy strike back.


Rule #3: Never be alone

Dreadnoughts are big enough targets that most enemy commanders will focus their more powerful weapons on the Dreadnought early in the game. By keeping the Dreadnought with a supporting unit or staying near terrain where possible, the survivability of the Dreadnought increases dramatically. In most cases simply doubling up on the number of Dreadnoughts achieves the desired effect, increasing the number of targets the enemy has to fire which increases survivability of both Dreadnoughts.


Deployment
The Dreadnought can be deployed in a variety of ways, however the most popular are either via Drop Pod or as part of the initial deployment on the firing line.
Depending on the weapon load-out, the effectivness of the Dreadnought is altered by how it is deployed. Weapons with mid to low range should not be deployed on the firing line, while weapons with only a couple of powerful long range shots should not be dropped into the enemy.

Typical Raven Guard deployment requires fast responses to the changing battle field, and so deployment via Drop Pod is often best. When deploying via Drop Pod, ensure the Dreadnought's weapons are capable of dealing with the requirements needed at such close range to the enemy, and ensure it is well supported either with another Dreadnought or other units capable of keeping the enemy away from the Dreadnought.

Typical weapon load-outs are highlighted below, however it should be noted that the 'Fire Starter', 'Assault Support' and 'Tank Hunter Mk1 ' are the best and most efficient Dreadnought builds to use when deploying via Drop Pod.


Handy Tips

1. When facing Marine-Equivalent armies, almost all close-range weapons will struggle to cut down the enemy before the assault. Instead, take weapons more suited to killing the enemy at range, where the Dreadnought can stay in cover and support other, more specialised units on the field.

2. When deploying via Drop-Pod, the Dreadnought should be considered a supporting unit, and never deployed alone. A lone Dreadnought looking at the enemy firing line will die very quickly next turn. Even if it did its job and took out a particular threat, the Dreadnought could still go on to kill more. A weapon as powerful as a Dreadnought is rarely expendable.

3. Don’t depend on your Dreadnought performing. Never make your tactics rely on the Dreadnought killing a certain unit or surviving a period of time. Your tactics should allow for the loss of the Dreadnought, or at the very least the loss of its weapons. Expect the enemy to target the Dreadnought early, and expect to lose it. If it survives to kill more, then it’s a bonus!

4. Remember that vehicles with Gets Hot! weapons have 'cooling systems' that negate the weapon's Gets Hot! rules. Thats is very helpful with the Plasma Cannon upgrade!

5. Review the enemy army, make a mental note of where weapons capable of harming the Dreadnought are deployed, and make a note of killing those as early as possible. Units with melta-guns, melta bombs or other high strength, AP1 weapons should be a high concern and dealt with accordingly.

6. Being locked in combat has mixed blessings. Avoid being locked in combat by units that can harm the Dreadnought, however units that are not a threat in close combat could be charged if there is a higher risk from their ranged weapons, even if the risk is to another unit!

7. Be aware of wargear that can harm the Dreadnought, such as Krak grenades, but remember that the enemy must hit the walker on a roll of 6, only using the WS value if the Dreadnought is stunned or imobilised. Also the armour penetration of the grenade still needs to equal or exceed the front armour of the Dreadnought. In the case of the Ironclad pattern, Krak grenades are useless!

8. Although I advise against getting a Dreadnought into close combat, the high strength of the Dreadnought, even without the DCCW, means that soft targets will be instantly killed by the Dreadnought. When it comes to a last ditch effort, sometimes it may just pay off.


Builds

There are three typical weapon load-outs which I will state here and highlight how the Dreadnought should be used, and the weakness of each load-out.

A. Tank-Hunter Mk 1.
Multi-melta, Dreadnought Close-Combat Weapon with Storm Bolter.
Cost: 105points


This load-out is designed for close-quarters tank hunting. The Multi-melta excels at cracking open vehicles, while the DCCW provides an excellent S10 hit for breaking open vehicles that survived the Multi-melta. The Storm-bolter even has a chance to break open soft transport units! This load-out can suffer if the Dreadnought faces massed infantry, as it lacks short-ranged firepower suited to killing multiple weaker units.

B. Tank-Hunter Mk 2.
Missile-Launcher, Twin-Linked Las-Cannon
Cost: 145points


This load-out is designed for ranged tank hunting. The 48inch range on both weapons and, when firing Krak missiles, the high strength and low-AP of both weapons mean vehicles at range really suffer badly, rarely surviving a single turn when under fire from a Dreadnought with these weapons. As with load-out A, this unit suffers against massed infantry at short range, however a well placed Frag missile has the potential to ease the situation.

C. Assault Support
Assault Cannon, Dreadnought Close-Combat Weapon with Heavy Flamer
Cost: 125points


The Range of the Assault Cannon can confuse players as to the best use of this unit, however the primary role of this load-out is close-quarters support. Able to rattle out 4 rending hits plus the high-strength Flamer template before assaulting, this load-out is best used along side other units of infantry, as it is able to quickly clear out large numbers of enemy before assaulting with its DCCW. This load-out should always be supported, as its limited number of close-combat hits could cause this unit to be locked in combat too long when facing larger enemy units.


There are a few other, more exotic weapon load-outs which should be mentioned here, however their popularity is limited to the availability of parts.

A. Fire Starter
Twin-Linked Heavy Flamer, Dreadnought Close-Combat Weapon with Heavy Flamer
Cost: 115points


The 'Fire Starter' Dreadnought is able to ignore cover with two templates, one of which re-rolls all failed wounds, this unit is really made to clear out massed infantry that would otherwise be hard to hit in cover. This load-out is limited to 5inchs of effective range, with a maximum of 6inchs of killing power. The lack of long-range fire power means this unit can quickly find its self with nothing to shoot!

B. MEQ-Hunter
Plasma Cannon, Missile Launcher
Cost: 125points


This load-out is mainly effective at 24inch to 36inch range and designed to clear out more expensive enemy units, such as Terminators, Obliterators, storm troopers, etc, as well as enemy HQ units. This load-out is prone to scatter and so friendly fire is highly likely.

C. Jack of Trades
Two Twin-Linked Auto-Cannons
Cost: 125points


This weapon load-out boasts no less than four re-rolling hits of one of the most potent long-range weapons available in a Space Marine army. Typically seen on Predators in a single-barrelled variant, the Twin-Linked Auto-Cannon is extremely powerful against light armour and infantry alike. Suitable at both short and long range supporting fire, this load-out only fails in close-combat, which it should never be in.


The above list of load-outs are all based on the standard pattern Dreadnought, and are all usable on the Venerable Dreadnought. The cost becomes significantly higher, however the potential for taking down enemy both close and at range increases, which survivability increases too. In most cases however, the bonuses from a Venerable Dreadnought are negligible, such as the 'Fire Starter' outfit, which doesn't rely on BS at all.


The final type of Dreadnought is a unique pattern, separate from the normal Dreadnought, and as such has a different array of weapon options, the majority of which are designed for close-quarters tank hunting. The Ironclad sports higher front and side armour, as well as some impressive weapons, however almost all options lack long-ranged firepower, so the possibility of being left without a target is always a problem

A. Siege Engine
Seismic Hammer, melta-gun, Dreadnought Close-Combat Weapon, Storm Bolter
Cost: 135points


The basic Ironclad weapons load-out. Utterly useless at range, however sports two close-combat weapons which gains a bonus attack adding up to 4 hits on the charge which all add +1 to the result on the vehicle damage chart. This load-out is completely designed for assaulting tough Vehicles with the melta-gun to add a little ranged fire-power to soften the target before the assault. Against almost anything else, this load-out fails. A lone HQ unit could be a potential target, but what are the chances of that happening?

B. Confusor
Seismic Hammer or ChainFist, melta gun, Hurricane Bolter
Cost: 135points


The only real ranged outfit for the Ironclad Dreadnought. The Hurricane bolter is more typically seen strapped to the side of a Land Raider, and is excellent at reducing massive squads of infantry. The real confusion comes from the Seismic Hammer or ChainFist, which are both ideally suited to taking down tough vehicles. This particular load-out can be employed against both armour and infantry, while never really being the best at taking down either. For engagements against one or two soft vehicles and lots of infantry, this load-out has great potential while often struggling to keep up.


Conclusion

Dreadnoughts are weapons of mass destruction in every sense of it. Able to tear through the thickest armour or annihilate swarms of infantry, the Dreadnought can perform where other units fail, and they do it while looking good too. They are weak against high strength weapons or being assaulted by large mobs, but when equipped for the job and supported properly, any variation of Dreadnought can earn its points back within a few turns, and rapidly turn the tide against the enemy. The biggest thing a commander must understand is that the Dreadnought is not expendable, and must never be treat as such, but must always expect the Dreadnought to fail, such that a backup is ready to finish the job when things go wrong.


Thanks for reading, C&C is very welcome, and thanks to Alterecho for a great lay-out which I really should have asked to use. ;)

Cheers,

CR

PS. Thanks to Levitas for C&C on doubling up, use in close-combat and RG specific deployment. Thanks also to Jaspercation for advising on pro's and con's of all dreadnought variants.

_________________
Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


Last edited by White Raven CleanRabbit on Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:35 pm, edited 4 times in total.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:36 pm 
Master Artificier
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Awesome stuff CR, I certainly learned a few lessons as I don't take dreads often.

I'll add that doubling up works, as any BA player with 2 Furioso's will tell you. As dreads are pretty cheap if you take 2 one is bound to survive to do a fair bit of damage. You can even combine long range and short range.

In respects to a fast moving assault based force like the raven guard, deployment by DP is almost essential except for the support dread load out. If not the dread can get quickly left behind and in the vulnerable open ground.

I personally like the jack of trades with 2 twin linked autocannons, will churn out a high str and respectable amount of hits at range.

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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:39 pm 
White Raven
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Cheers Lev =)

Do you recomend I update to highlight how best to deploy a Dread for RG? And perhaps highlight the benefits on doubling up a little more?

CR

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Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


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 Post subject:
PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 12:46 pm 
Master Artificier
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CleanRabbit wrote:
Cheers Lev =)

Do you recomend I update to highlight how best to deploy a Dread for RG? And perhaps highlight the benefits on doubling up a little more?

CR


Thats upto you mate. I was just throwing in my pennies worth! Doubling up helps with most units, my list is almost simetrical! But I think with dfreads it really helps, I know earthen runs a couple to great effect. One most players can handle, but two with different roles start to prove problomatic. Do you handle the one popping your tanks or the one eating the infantry? I faced 3 once and simply had nothing to stop them.. :/

Also, close range dreads are very suseptable to melta guns. With more players packing them in 5th due to the AP1 bonus, it really is something to consider and be cautious of.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 1:01 pm 
White Raven
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Cheers for the C&C.
The post is updated to cover the notes you mentioned, and I gave credit to you at the bottom =)


CR

_________________
Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 2:06 pm 
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Thanks for the read Dreadnaughts are one thing I've always loved about SM though I have yet to try mine out.

Gives lots of things to think about!


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:04 pm 
Master Artificier
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Another thought is that even though long range dreads lack the DCC, they do still hit with a str of 6 at I4. Thats a Vanguard with relic blade, but much tougher. So dont think the dread is a push over if assault is on the cards. I've had dreads headbutt necron lords that got too close... :)

Top article CR, fine stuff.

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 5:29 pm 
White Raven
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Brilliant work clean rabbit a really in depth tactica and it amazing how much i've known, learnt and will use in future games, just from this article. Brilliant work! maybe focus a little bit on the pros and cons of a venerable dreadnaught as well? but really can't fault it mate!

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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 6:38 pm 
White Raven
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White Raven Jaspercation wrote:
Brilliant work clean rabbit a really in depth tactica and it amazing how much i've known, learnt and will use in future games, just from this article. Brilliant work! maybe focus a little bit on the pros and cons of a venerable dreadnaught as well? but really can't fault it mate!


Glad to be of service =)

I've added your idea. I wouldn't want a half-finished product after all =)

Lev, I've tagged another 'tip' on there for slapping units in close combat.

If you guys think of anything else, I'll be happy to add it =)

CR

_________________
Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:09 pm 
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This is a great read but one thing I'm confused on is "7. Be aware of wargear that can harm the Dreadnought, such as Krak grenades, but remember that the enemy must hit the walker on a roll of 6, only using the WS value if the Dreadnought is stunned or imobilised. Also the armour penetration of the grenade still needs to equal or exceed the front armour of the Dreadnought. In the case of the Ironclad pattern, Krak grenades are useless! "

Its not explained well for someone who doesn't already know the rule, can someone give the page numberish where that is mentioned? Or does it have something to do with a krak's str 3 vs the Walker armor?


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PostPosted: Tue Mar 17, 2009 7:12 pm 
White Raven
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Rulebook Page 63 highlights the armour penetration of grenades (krak/melta/etc).
A krak grenade's armour penetration is 6+D6, giving a maximum potential of 12, which only just glances a normal Dreadnought and fails to glance an Ironclad. =)

I've tried to avoid quoting page numbers/etc as I feel the article needs to be used with some degree of knowledge of the rules. Naturally if there are any questions at all, myself or one of the others will be happy to help in the rest of the thread =)

Any more problems, gimmi a shout =)

CR

_________________
Sons of Shadow - 4876points
W/L/D
19/19/6

We are now up against live, hostile targets. So, if Little Red Riding Hood should show up with a bazooka and a bad attitude, I expect you to chin the b!tch.

My missus says I've got the mental age of my unborn baby girl, but what does she know?


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