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It’s been a week, and I seriously cannot stop running over tactics in my head. This time I've gone for something, not that is common to almost all lists, but something I really have a passion for, so here goes:


Tactical: Chapter Master and Honour Guard

Intro:
To date there is no record of the Raven Guard's current Chapter Master. He is a figure that we all strive to visualise, yet with only Captain Shrike as a basis, many of us consider our elusive Chapter Master to be similar to Shrike in many ways, but this needn't be the case. Honour Guard are, however, a very little used unit in general. Lacking the capacity to take Jump Packs, Honour Guard requires different tactics in order for them to be both successful and usable on the battle field.

Chapter Master:
Pros
-Massive range of war-gear - Can be equipped to deal with any type of unit on the board
-Can deploy in almost as many ways as Shrike
-High WS and BS and potential 5 attacks on the charge.
-Invulnerable save of 4+ as standard, and access to the Storm Shield for a 3+
-Orbital Bombardment for that first-turn pie-plate of S10 AP1 goodness

Cons
-Vulnerable to Instant Death (ID)
-Needs support to be most effective
-Can quickly become expensive
-Doesn’t have any special rules like Shrike
-Cannot replace Combat Tactics


Honour Guard
Pros
-They do not take up a Force Organisation slot
-Artificer Armour is given as standard
-Power Weapons are given as standard
-Chapter Champion is given as part of the squad (not an upgrade like others)
-Chapter Banner grants an extra attack for each Marine in the squad for 25points.
-With 10 Honour Guard Marines, a potential 51power weapon hits on the charge are possible! 51!!!
-Attach the Chapter Master and gain a potential 57power weapon hits on the charge!

Cons
-Massively expensive - 115 points for 3 Marines and 360 for 10Marines! That’s two tactical squads!
-Honour or Death forces the Champion to hit the enemy HQ model, regardless of what you want.
-No jump packs or bikes - forced to go by foot. Transports are available though.
-Die just like normal marines to plasma and Melta fire.



Overview
Getting the best out of the Chapter Master isn't hard with all the upgrades. Simply taking war-gear that works best against the current enemy helps the most. Without support the Chapter Master quickly becomes toast.

Honour Guard units make excellent supporting units for a Chapter Master, though their cost can quickly push up past 'usable' and into 'crazy' levels, with 10 Honour Guard Marines and Chapter Master costing 485points! That is 1/3rd of a 1500point army, and before upgrades!

Because of their combined cost and the lack of mobility of the Honour Guard, it is difficult to get them into the enemy without them taking excessive fire beforehand, cutting away at those very expensive models!

Choosing a Chapter Master isn't easy. The Chapter Master is 25 points more expensive than the Captain who has all the same customisability, just without Orbital Bombardment with, ultimately, is a 1 shot scatter weapon that could miss and never make its points back.

There are some wonderful Special Characters out there that provide great alternatives to the Chapter Master and in some cases offer Orbital Bombardment as well, so why take the Chapter Master? Well, for Honour Guard.

Honour Guard are only available when a Chapter Master takes to the field. They are expensive, but they are actually cost effective when you consider what you get.

Artificer Armour is only available to the Chapter Master or Company Captain, and costs 15points. Power weapons cost 15points for any unit as well - that’s 30points, meaning Honour Guard Marines actually cost around 5 to 8 points plus their upgrades.... BARGIN!


Deployment
So you've settled on taking a Chapter Master and Honour Guard as well. Now what is the best way to deploy these guys?

Well it entirely depends on two things.
1. The war-gear you gave your Chapter Master
2. Whether you want your Chapter Master to stay with your Honour Guard.

Honour Guard do not have to be attached to the Chapter Master. They can be deployed separately, and they never have to come together during the game - they can work completely separately, which really helps.

Deployment 1 - Attached Together

If you plan on keeping the Chapter Master and Honour Guard together, then mobility is your biggest problem. Don’t waste points on a Bike or Jump Pack, as your Chapter Master will not benefit from either upgrades enhanced movement. Instead, the unit should be deployed in a vehicle to enhance their survivability. A Rhino is a great option for larger Honour Guard squads, while a Razorback makes the perfect addition for smaller, more cost restricted Honour Guard squads.
When deployed in a Rhino or Razorback, remain embarked until the ability to charge arises, make the most of the sheer number of power weapon attacks by always making the charge, and most commanders will quickly see the benefit from this method.
If cost is no object (or there is one already in your army), assaulting from a Land-Raider really combines survivability with epic destructive power.
The final deployment method is via Drop Pod. This isn’t the greatest way to enter the battle, as those expensive models have very limited firing capabilities and will be unable to assault on the turn they arrive. If they survive long enough though, you'll be in the midst of the battle and ready to assault anything that gets too close.

As can be seen, when planning to keep the Chapter Master and Honour Guard together, a lot of pre-planning is required in order to ensure the unit arrives safely and survives for as long as possible so that each and every one of those expensive Honour Guard Marines gets a chance to strike.

Deployment 2 - Separated

This deployment method opens up the most options to every commander. Allowing the Chapter Master to accompany Bike squads or Assault squads while the Honour Guard either slog it out on foot or cruise around in their preferred transport option. While operating separately, the same amount of precaution is required to ensure those expensive Honour Guard Marines survive long enough to deal the damage, however the Chapter Master has a chance to clear a path for them with another, more suitable accompanying squad.

If you plan on deploying the Chapter Master and Honour Guard separately, then there are two questions you need to answer
1) What unit will the Chapter Master accompany into battle?
2) What will be the best way for the Honour Guard to enter the fight?

Given a Jump Pack, the Chapter Master can join an Assault squad or Vanguard Veteran squad, able to fly over the battle field and strike the enemy exactly where needed. This is very effective, and really makes the best of his higher WS and Initiative.

Given a Bike, the Chapter Master can join a Space Marine Bike squad or Attack Bike squad, further increasing the Chapter Master's toughness (and survivability) while maintaining his excellent attacking power.

While on foot, attached to a Sternguard or Tactical squad the Chapter Master can make great use of his higher BS while being more than capable in the event of an assault.

Finally, attached to a Terminator Squad with Terminator Armour, the Chapter Master can arrive either via Teleport or in a Land-Raider. Either way, the extra protection provided by the armour and the squad greatly enhances all of the Chapter Master's aspects.

Regardless of how the Chapter Master arrives and works on the battlefield, the Honour Guard are still limited to either foot-slogging or deploying with a vehicle, the latter working best for Honour Guard. After deployment, this squad can focus on supporting the Chapter Master and his attached unit or go after other targets on the battlefield.

There is one other deployment method that deserves mention for all Raven Guard commanders, and that is with Shrike and Infiltrate.
Infiltrating into an assaulting position is brilliant, and really makes the most of the Honour Guard's close-combat speciality.
With the opponents permission, Infiltrating the Chapter Master, Honour Guard and Shrike into a very effective location really can yield excellent benefits, the downside is that 450 to 750points of your army is spent on between 5 and 12 HQ models, which is never good.


Builds and Battle Roles

I am breaking my personal norm by putting Builds and Battle Roles together. This is because I feel that the Battle Role of both the Chapter Master and Honour Guard very much links with the war-gear they take to the battle and vice-versa.

Build 1.) The Tank
Master with Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Artificer Armour
185points
Honour Guard, 1 extra Marine and Chapter Banner
175points
Razorback
35points
Total = 395points

This build is designed to cruise down a flank with a supporting unit, jump out and assault, taking a massive battering on the 2+ armour saves all round, and allowing a 3+ Invulnerable save for the occasional power weapon or plasma shot. Totalling 26 power weapon hits on the charge, 5 of which are Strength 6, there is very little that can stand a single round of combat against that many hits. The downside here is that the effectiveness and survivability is tied to a very soft vehicle, so getting into combat could be a problem if the Razorback is blown up. If there is a Land-Raider already in the army that isn’t being occupied by another unit, I seriously suggest moving these lads over to it - just pray that the enemy doesn’t notice a 645point HQ-Raider cruising towards them...

Build 2.) Counter Assault
Master with Plasma Pistol and Power Weapon, Digital Weapons, Aux Grenade Launcher
180points
Honour Guard, Chapter Banner
140points
Total = 320poitns

This build is designed for those who prefer their static firing line deployment. The Chapter Master and Honour Guard stay close to the front line, hugging cover just behind the first wave of shooty marines. As soon as the enemy get too close the Chapter Master and Honour Guard dive out of cover, fire the Aux Launcher to further soften the enemy and assault, finishing off what ever survived the shooting phase, then retreat back ready for the next assault.
The downside here is that the Chapter Master and Honour Guard are pretty open, generally getting a 3+ cover save either in ruins or by going to ground for the first few turns while hiding behind friendly units. They will take losses if left in the open too long though.

Build 3.) Spearhead
Master with Relic Blade, Combi-weapon, Jump Pack
165points
Honour Guard with 2 extra Marines, Chapter Banner
210points
Razorback
35points
Total = 410points

This build is quite expensive however it makes great use of the ability to deploy the Honour Guard separate from the Chapter Master. Attached to an Assault Marine squad, the Chapter Master uses the Honour Guard’s Razorback as a mobile wall, advancing as far forward as possible before jumping free and striking. This tactic is best used with a Rhino or another Razorback filled with more Marines moving forward as a single spearhead, disembarking together and unleashing on the enemy in vicious attack that will leave them crippled and stunned after a single turn.
As noted, this build is expensive and relies on the somewhat brittle transports to guide the Chapter Master home without him or his squad taking damage, however when combined with other parts of the army, this technique really has the chance to work well.

Build 4.) MC-Hammer
Master with Relic Blade, Storm Shield, Aux Grenade Launcher
185points
Honour Guard with 2 extra Marines, Chapter Banner, 4x Relic Blades, Thunder Hammer and Digital Lasers on Champion
295points
Total = 480points

This build is damn expensive with every model losing an attack to either Relic Blade or Thunder Hammer, but by god it’s good at what it does.
Most of us have faced a Monsterous Creature (MC)-heavy army, such as the famous Nid-Zilla list that touts three Carnifex's. The high toughness of MC's is a big enough problem for most armies, and other than shooting them to death with 1-shot Las-cannons that miss as often as they hit, there is another way. A potential 21 Strength 6 hits plus 5 Strength 8 hits on the charge with a re-roll to wound from the Champion's Hammer, seriously, how many MC's will survive a round with that?
The option to give the Chapter Master a Relic Blade is to make sure he makes the best of his higher Initiative, where giving him a Thunder Hammer will take the potential Strength 8 hits to 10, it will mean he hits last, giving the MC a chance (if any) to strike the Chapter Master.
As said before, this is a very expensive build. Sacrificing one or two marines could help reduce the cost, but at the worst case you will need to pour as much into Anti-MC as the enemy has into MC's, just remember this unit is damn good against vehicles too! This unit also lacks any dedicated transport. This is generally because those big baddies usually come to you. If you are facing a Daemon-Lash list then you may wish to consider mounting up in a Land-Raider to get stuck into those Daemons as fast as possible!

Build 5.)MEQ-Plus
Master with Lightning Claw and Combi-Melta
150points
Honour Guard with Chapter Banner
140points
Total = 280points

As costs go, this is pretty cheap. You get 4models with lots of war-gear with lots of attacks and re-rolls to wound from the Chapter Master. The choice for either Combi-Melta or Combi-Plasma is up to the user; however I favour the Melta for its versatility over the Plasma.
The whole object of this unit is to strike MEQ's or Marine EQuivalent models like Chaos Marines, Necron Warriors and Tyranid Warriors. This unit generally strikes at the same time as the enemy, with the Chapter Master striking first, putting 5 potential power weapon hits on the enemy that all re-roll to wound before the rest of the Honour Guard get stuck in with another 16 power weapon hits.

This unit is cheap (as Honour Guard go), very effective at cutting through lots of MEQ's. As a further bonus, if the Honour Guard strike first, there is little chance of anything without an Invulnerable save getting a chance to strike back!
As a down side, there aren’t a lot of bodies to share plasma or Melta shots around, though the Chapter Master does still have the free Iron Halo.

Build 6.) Master Shrike
Master with Twin Lightning Claws, Artificer Armour, Aux Grenade Launcher and Jump pack
210points
Honour Guard with Chapter Banner
140points
Razorback
35points
Total = 385points

The 'Master Shrike' concept is based on the Idea that the Raven Guard Chapter Master would be a better, faster, harder version of Captain Shrike. Well, I don’t know about faster or harder, but this build isn't far off.

Unlike Shrike, you don’t get Fleet or an Infiltrate special rule with this build, what you do get is a 2+ armour save and Orbital Bombardment to soften up your target before you strike.
Used in a similar fashion as the Spearhead build, this build works great when the Chapter Master is attached to an Assault squad or Vanguard Veteran squad, and advance behind the cover of the Razorback until in assault range. This build sacrifices both Chainsword and Bolt Pistol for Lightning Claws, so you don’t get a shooting attack from the Master. What you do get is 5 power weapon attacks on the charge that all re-roll to wound and strike before the enemy in most cases, brilliant against hordes and MEQs alike when combined with the attached jump infantry and a little love from the Honour Guard.

Build 7.) Terminator Judgement
Master with Terminator Armour, Twin Lightning Claws
180points
Assault Terminator Squad with 3xTH/SS, 2xLC's
200points
Honour Guard with 2 extra Marines, Chapter Banner
210points
Razorback
35points
Total = 625points

In this build I have included a unit of terminators. The exact weapon load-out on the Terminators doesn’t effect the overall cost, however the Master should travel with the Terminators, giving a much-needed 5 Lightning Claw hits to a potential 20 hits from the Terminators already. Against big mobs, MEQ-hunters, HQ's and even most MC's, this build really works well. Again, this build lacks any ranged firepower from the Chapter Master, completely wasting his increased BS in exchange for an extra attack in CC.
The Honour Guard play the supporting role once again, cruising to the Terminators in their Razorback and assaulting what the Chapter Master assaults or tie nearby enemy units in CC, stopping them shoot the Chapter Master when he destroys everything he's hitting.

This, as a whole, is a very expensive group. Costing over 1/3rd of a 1500point army for 11 models that all really lack ranged firepower. On the other hand, it also covers all the close-combat kick you'll need at that point level.

Build 8.) Hells Angels
Master with Thunder Hammer
155points
Space Marine Bike squad, 5 extra Bikers, 2Melta guns, Power fist on Sergeant Attack Bike with Multi-Melta
310points
Honour Guard with Chapter Banner
140 points
Total = 565points

Oh yea you know it. 8 Bikes and a Multi-Melta Attack Bike riding along side the Master with a Hammer for a total of 10 very fast moving marines! Those 1950's and '60's bikers by the same name as this build only wish they could pack the same punch! The Honour Guard are left to foot-slog across the map, tackling anything that could be a threat to the rest of the army while the Master and his 'posse' cruise down a flank on their hogs, causing trouble, ripping up the turf doing donuts and generally having a laugh, err, I mean shooting tanks with the Multi-Melta and smacking big groups of infantry hard and fast [s]like Branigan's law[/s]. The increase in toughness makes it harder for any hit to wound the Chapter Master, so Artificer armour isn't required, and against shots, keeping the Chapter Master moving grants him a 4+cover save which he can use instead of his 4+ Invulnerable save from his Iron Halo if you really want to. In this build the Chapter Master takes a Thunder Hammer instead of the usual Relic Blade or Power Weapon. This does waste his higher Initiative, though grants a fair few extra bonuses when pulling a hit-and-run on MC's or vehicles.

Although this build places much less emphasis on the Honour Guard, they are still a key piece in the army. Indeed they are left to walk, but that is only to keep the costs down. If the points are spare, a Razorback will really help them keep up with the Bikers and give them a chance help by tying up nearby enemy units to stop them shooting the Bikes after they've finished [s]pulling wheelies[/s] killing the enemy



Targets and Assault
Selecting the best target for your Chapter Master is based on both his weapon options and the unit he is accompanying. Typically aim for the Chapter Master to help the attached unit do their job, rather than the attached unit helping the Chapter Master. This way you're not forcing units to do things they are unable to achieve while maximising the potential of the Chapter Master.

In the builds I've mentioned above, I've stated ideal targets for each combination of attached unit and war-gear options.

When geared up properly, there is always a high chance that the Chapter Master and his attached unit will wipe out what ever he charges, so always assume he will. Ensure he has proper support in one form or another, block line of sight with transports and generally make it harder for the enemy to shoot the Chapter Master after he's finished slaying enemy units. The Raven Guard way is to strike from the shadows then return to them. In many builds this isn't really an obvious option, but it should always be possible with enough fore-thought.

I have purposely avoided assaults on vehicles with all of the above builds for one reason. Should the assault fail, the Chapter Master and his attached unit will be left in the open with no means of cover, and that is bad. Where possible, shoot vehicles and only assault when the enemy won’t have line-of-sight to the Chapter Master on the following shooting phase.

Regardless of how the Chapter Master is used, he really has the potential to do well. Only when used together with other supporting units or his own Honour Guard does he really shine.


Chapter Master and other HQ's

Chapter Masters never leave home alone, regardless of how you deploy your army and just like with supporting units, Chapter Masters love company in the form of other HQ units.

Chapter Master + Chapter Master
On those epic, massive or just plane crazy-big battles, Chapters do work together, so two Chapter Masters may not seem so silly in that respect. Two Chapter Masters with an Honour Guard each may seem like overkill in even a 2000point army, but in bigger Apocalypse games fielding 20Honour Guard Marines makes a lot of sense if the points permit! Alternatively, two cheap Chapter Masters with Jump Packs or Bikes attached to respective units increases the killing potential very quickly. It also grants two Orbital Bombardment shots, which could decimate most small armies on turn 1!

Chapter Master + Company Captain
This combination is a little less rare, and also brings extra perks, such as the Command Squad which can keep both the Chapter Master and Company Captain alive that little longer. Again, when equipped with either a Bike or Jump Pack each, they can work together and bring swift death to the enemy while costing less than the 2xChapter Master combo.

Chapter Master + Librarian
This combination makes a fair amount of sense for the 'Terminator Judgement' build, allowing rapid relocation of the entire unit, while providing much needed ranged support in the form of Avenger or Smite. When combined with Quickening, the Librarian can soften up big units that the Chapter Master may struggle with. The Librarian can join the Chapter Master either on foot, in Terminator Armour, on a Bike or with Jump Packs, or simply work separately with their own unique goals. Ultimately the cost will remain similar to the Master/Captain combo, while providing different benefits and requiring minor changes to the method of deployment and/or the battle role of the combo.

Chapter Master + Chaplain
This is possibly the most common combination of HQ's, giving the Chapter Master the chance to re-roll all his hits, massively increasing his effectiveness in close combat which really is where the Chapter Master excels over other HQ units. A Chaplain, Chapter Master and Honour Guard combined together make a very effective force that many units simply cannot handle when these guys make the charge. Most effective assaulting out of a Land-Raider, on Bikes or with Jump packs where high mobility increases their combined performance on the battle field

Chapter Master + Master of the Forge
There really is no obvious link between these two units where one doesn’t directly support the other. Their use together is limited beyond assaulting on Bikes together in which the Master of the Forge has little to offer. In short, the combination really only has two things to offer - the Conversion Beamer and Dreadnoughts as Heavy Support choices. These perks require a lot more coverage than this little paragraph, but in reality if they are what are required, then the Chapter Master maybe isn’t the best choice.

Chapter Master + Special Names Characters
This is where the failings of the Chapter Master can be recovered. By combining the special rules and Chapter Tactics from an existing Named Character with your own Chapter Master build, you can quickly have a Fleeting Tank build, Master Crafted Thunder Hammers or Scoring Sternguard. The possibilities are only limited by your imagination, and the points limit of the game...

Conclusion

It really must be said first that, if Honour Guard are not required or the points simply aren't available for them in the army, then taking a Chapter Master simply doesn’t yield greater results than that of a Company Captain. However, if Honour Guard really are both usable and wanted in the army, then the Chapter Master has a couple of nice tricks that set him apart from the rest.

The randomness of the Orbital Bombardment can sometimes be a benefit, scattering into tightly packed units or onto vehicles you wouldn't have targeted yourself, however it's lack of certainty should lead a commander to always expect it to fail, making a direct hit on 15 models all that more sweeter.

When equipped right, joined to the right unit and facing the right enemy, the Chapter Master really does shine, out-performing all but Company Captains in close combat. Even when geared up against the wrong type of opponent, the Chapter Master still stands a higher than average chance of beating down the enemy providing he is supported in the right way.

Ultimately, the Chapter Master is another gear in the ever-working machine that is a Space Marine army. He is a gear that must be used in the right way to gain the maximum from him, this particular gear just as a lot of uses and a lot of ways to get the job done.




Thank you all for reading my latest rant. I wasn't originally going to write this one however I couldn't resist the urge.

C&C is as always welcome. If you can see errors in my builds or would like your favourite build putting up there, let me know and I'll sort something out.

If there is a particular way you use your Chapter Master with great effect let me know too! It might just be worth adding! =)

Cheers again,

CR

PS. Sorry that it's 11 pages long! And I thought the Tactical Marine tactica was long :S

Nice! Excellent work yet again CR. To be honest I often overlook thme both due to the expense, but you have given some good points worth mulling over.

I think if we had a decent chapter master model you would see more. I know Dante gets about.

But I hope your article has inspired the converters out there...

After 31 views and you being the only one to post, i'm not so sure... hehe.

I personally love my Master, the problem is I always feel slightly cheated by not being able to utilise combat tactics, so on those big games I end up taking a lot of points worth of HQ (with Shrike!) just to feel like i'm getting the best bang-per-buck. Had GW given a single extra rule to the Master, such as being able to give 1 tac squad a special rule (like Kantor), then it would be a totally different matter (and open up more ways in which each army will be customised!)

Nevermind. I know the captain will get pleny of attention =)

CR

Good stuff,

Considering the amount to cover, you managed to do it admirably

Keep up the good work CR.

I think its very well written.

I just didn't reply because I have no experience using a chapter master or honor guard

That is exactly why I belive most people haven't replied Earthen! Because they have little expreience with Master + HG!

I know very few are willing to pour so many points into HQ, especially at 1500point games (which i consider close to the norm atm). But hopefully when somone does need this information, it will be stickied and available through the Covus project. =)


Glad to help, and thanks for the replys!


CR

A very helpfull and well written piece.

Having only experience with Librarians and shrike, this was a very helpfull learning experience

Glad you had the time to read it! hehe.

If you decide to give some of these ideas a try and let us know how they work out for you. I'm always interested in peoples experiences with unit builds =)

CR

I would like to use Honor Guard, but I feel a captain + command squad is superior most of the time.

- Problem I see is three or four melta shots can kill the only 3 men squad,
when a command squad can wear 2 or 3 Storm Shield with 3++.

- under heavy rapid fire weaker shots, sure you have 2+ saves, but you will end-up roll 1s vs 20 hits.
And just one failed means one dead out of 3.
With command squad, you got 5 mens, and after your 3+ saves, you get Feel No Pain on the entire squad...
(many tournamenst considers that a joining captain gets FnP too !)

- Command Squad can be made 5 toughness, and 12' move with bikes.

- Finally, the weapon range of a command squad is much greater that Honor Guard,
and thus can be more tactically versatile.

I find your article very cool, but I really fail at seeing a role where Honor Guard is superior to a Command Squad.
Perhaps the only thing cool about Honor Guard is the Relic blades for all the squad.
But it would be shot to bits with AP1 or AP2 weapon, before getting a chance to spread havoc in the battlefield,
with no invuls to save their heads...

I can't find myself the best way to use Honour Guard. They are just way too expensive. I like it very much back then when you can include one in your Normal Squad.


Command squad is much better in most cases compares to the Honour Guard.

Ultimately the 3-man honour guard squad is pretty hard to justify. They are quite handy as a counter-charge unit, sitting behind a combat squad of tactical marines on an objective for example, where they can charge anything that tangles with the combat squad.

Indeed, FnP has perks that 2+ armour doesn't, and having 5 marines for 115points over 3 marines at the same cost provides more options, but lets break some rules and look at the real points cost for each model for a moment...


Command Squad - 115points for 5 models = 23points per model. Your paying 7 extra points per model for FnP and an extra attack, regardless of other options like bikes/etc
HG Squad - 115points for 3 models = 38.3points per model. Your paying 22.3 extra points for an extra attack, artificer armour (normally 15 points) and a power weapon (normally 15 points) - and that's ignoring the increased WS of the Champion! (the other way you can look at it is 35 points for two models and 45 for the champ, but that complicates things more than needed for this quick explanation)

When you look at it this way, you're getting 30points of wargear for around 18points plus (as a guess) five points for the extra attack.
Compare that to the command squad, and you can see just how much GW put weight on FnP...


Now, putting the costs aside, yes, you can gear your command squad to a pure ranged, pure CC or hybrid of the two, easily tailoring them to the needs on the battlefield. The cant, however, increase their squad size, take relic blades, take a chapter banner for 12inch radius attack bonus - a 140point HG squad (squad + banner) can smack out 16 power weapon attacks on the charge - You get 20 attacks on the charge with the Command Squad at 115points, but none of them are power weapon attacks which is great against units with 6+ saves, but trash against MEQ's!

I dont want to tell you 'The Command Squad is sh@t, dont take it, its not worth the points, blah blah' because that's wrong, they are worth their points and can be made to fit your army easier than a HG squad can. What I'm trying to say is dont just look at the points cost and number of models and think 'its not worth it'. They really can earn their points back. Its not hard for a unit of 3 HG to earn 150+ points with no upgrades when thrown into CC with a big unit of orks! Yes, its just 3 1's and they're dead - but if you look at all your army like that, a tactical squad is only 10 2's which is just as easy to achieve...

As a final note, Honour Guard on foot can be made to match a foot slogging vanguard squad, point-for-point, and achieve more on the battle field than they ever could - so if you're a Vanguard nut, perhaps switching them to a Honour Guard squad would be better for you


CR

I second that

Hey, no offence is taken my friend. Dont worry. We all have our preferences and i accept and understand that a command squad can be more RG fluffy in many ways than the HG unit.


Yes, a 250point LRC with 10 HG with a few relic blades (550ish points) in the mix, plus attached chappy (100points) and master with relic blade/storm shield/arti-armour (185points), is pretty much the peak of excellence in CC as far as Marines go. Its a crying shame that lot would cost nearly 1000points... wait, if we add...... nah, i digress =)

There is one other option my friend. Infiltrate. I didn't cover it in the Tactica because it directly integrates Shrike in with the HG unit.
Use Shrike to infiltrate the HG unit to within 18 inches of the nearest enemy (as close to 12" as possible if cover is available!) and get a first turn run/assault on the enemy! 13inches is the preferred infiltrate range, 15 is optimal, 18 is worst case, but that way you can get that expensive unit into CC on turn 1, while an assault marine unit moves up to join with Shrike (who should either join the charge or move back to meet with the ASM's).

I used this method in a game a few months back and by golly did it work a treat. If i remember right, the HG unit caused so much damage on turn 1, the marine opponent was crippled by turn 3 and had nothing to fight with...

Still, the option is always yours my friend. If you do ever bother to give them a chance, please do let us all know how they performed for you and what tactics/deployment you chose for them =)

Thanks for the feedback by the way =)

CR

man, I deleted my previous post by mistake, when editing it !

Well, don't bother, I was telling the only viable option to me seemed to use a LR with them, but made them not cheap.

Thanks for the feedback too.

Yeah, infiltrating maybe. But you must have a full LOS cover in 13' and I cannot give up the range of jumpacks, it's too good ^^.