Space wolves rumors at B&C, taken from LO

White Raven Earthen · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:04 am

About Assault terminators
SW are going to counter them, HARD. The massive amount of dice rolling that comes with the SW is a natural counter to 2+/3+ saves. Wolf Guard squad + Ragnar is getting up to 5 attacks PER model.

Initiative 5 Fenrisian wolves with Str 4 and 3 attacks on the charge for 8 points a model will slaughter hammernators and SM special chars alike.

And since SW will counter hammernators with massive amounts of I4 attacks - the S5 I5 blood angels will be built to counter them.

Aldebaran · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 10:52 am

Well you must compare points to points to say that.

Wolfguard + Ragnar (240 pt) is going align how many models for 400 points (IE 10 assault terminators) ?

And it would be a mistake to take only hammers. Normally I'd take half LC, half hammer.

Who gets the charge can be very important.

If the terminators get the charge, you're facing 20 attacks, reroll to wounds.
Thats means 10 hits, 6~7 wounds, with no saves.

Even if you hit me with 40 attacks -> 20 hits, 13 wounds, 2+ saves = 2 losses.
I don't count power weapons there, but that does increase the cost of wolf guard.
Let's say I loss three terminators more at worst.
So now I remove the 5 LC termies as losses.

I've not yet count the Thunder hammer, it seems.

15 TH attacks, 7 hits, 6~5 wounds, no saves.

If ragnar survives this, he drop to Init 1, due to hammers.

Then if a hammer kills Ragnar, you're toasted.
I don't say the terminators always win, but to say they will be counter hard is only true if you face dumb players
who align only TH/SS.

White Raven Darkreever · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 1:39 pm

Personally, after having used him, I'd rather use Arjac for his points leading a non wolf guard squad. Let him toss his hammer and kill off a few people with that before having whatever squad he's in soak up the wounds. Even if the squad lasts only one round, with saga of the bear and a storm shield it could take another round or two, or if your truly unlucky three. Maybe the terminators win, how many of their 400 points are left in the end? Say four of them were taken out by the hammer, another three in the first round of combat, and one more after that; you've got all of two left? And you likely fought less than 400 points worth of enemies, even though the wolves are what about the rest of his and your army?

The original point that was brought up about Shrike and the ten assault terminators looked like it was to show off that they are a nigh unstoppable unit. But they cost almost 600 points; effectively half a 1500 point army and thirty percent of a 2k army. Space Wolves are able to deal with the bulk of that unit for less; doesn't matter if they have to sacrifice something as long as most of the 600 point example is ruined. Previous edition, a Space Wolf player would likely look for a way to wipe them out, but now we have examples of other ways to 'win'.

Aldebaran · **Posted:** Tue Sep 22, 2009 3:41 pm

I don't know the Hammer rule of Arjac, how does it work ?

Does it remove invulnerable saves ? If yes, It's a pretty potent weapons and surely the bane of assault terminators...

In 1500 games, I wouldn't use Shrike anyway, he cost too much.

And Arjac @170 point shouldn't be here, either.

White Raven Darkreever · **Posted:** Wed Sep 23, 2009 2:16 am

Its a ranged attack, range is that of his normal charge distance (he's chucking this thing after all). Once it hits, its like getting hit by an orbital bombardment stat wise; doesn't ignore invulnerable saves, but it goes right through terminator armour and has a high enough strength/template size to be wounding a fair number of models more often than not. Sure you can put most of your wounds on the storm shield terminators, but then any losses they incur impedes their close combat potential.

What I'm liking about the characters, that I think they got right, is their prices. They are all a bit overpriced in the SW codex and not as worth it. They are all monsters in their own right, but you truly pay for taking them which you often should in my opinion.

Levitas · **Posted:** Sun Sep 27, 2009 7:27 pm

I dont think its a case of RG having the better assault units in fleeting TH termies. They will hit hard but the entire SW force is geared for assault and will do it better and cheaper.

If you play SW, what you should tool up on is sternguard. These guys are the jewl in the SM dex, and the one unit I will really miss as I shift to SW.

Having played over a 100+ games with RG its safe to say I dont think they are top of the assault tree. Potent and fast, but against dedicated assault forces like Blood Angels, Space Wolves , templars etc they fall short. But in sternguard there is the potent ranged weapon. Shrike is lethal, but still only puts out 5 attacks, while ragnar can easily exceed that and add in furious charge.

Wolves will still need to pack into rhinos, which are not assault vehicles. They also lack potent long range, although long fangs have come down in price. So other chapters will need to outshoot them as when they hit in assault it will be game over. Your tac marine hitting with 1 attack to the grey hunters 3 come rain or shine. Just shoot them, dont try and fleet into them with big units of termies. Thats one unit, that will then get swamped the following turns with cheaper units like fen wolves and bloodclaws.

Wolves will want to assault you, dont run into the meat grinder with blind faith in shrike and fleet. Use sternguard, distance, and that vital gap when the wolves leave rhinos and cant assault.

sonsofcorax.freeforums.org

Space wolves rumors at B&C, taken from LO

Who is online

Panel