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Yes, it's that great rule again.

The codex states that if marines are caught by a sweeping advance then they are not destroyed and will continue to fight normally. If this happens then the unit is subject to the 'No Retreat!' rule and might therefore suffer additional casualties.

So...in the 40k rule book it says under the 'No Retreat!' section "These units do not take morale checks and will never fall back"

In order for my marines to be caught by a sweeping advance they will need to have 1) Lost the combat 2) Failed the modified morale test

But the 'No retreat' section says that they do not take morale tests?

So i'm assuming what happens is 1) Lost combat 2) Fail modified Ld test 3) Loose sweeping advance initiative test 4) can't be wiped out so take number of casualties by what I lost combat by.

Again, it's just worded real bad.

No retreat is only all the time active for fearless units (some DA).
Not a real advantage to be fearless if you lose.
Space marines with atsknf will only fight under "no retreat" after they lost a fight and fled.When they were caught, the
"no retreat" rule kicks in for THIS fight only. So where other forces were destroyed, space marines turn to face the threat,
can ignore LD check then but suffer additional IF losing again.

Assuming: 1) lost combat 2) fall back and get caught 3)fight again 4) suffer additional wounds if losing again.

When fearless: 1) lost combat 2) ignore test and suffer additional wounds.

It prevents the squad from falling back after already falling back - as it doesn't take effect until after the squad has lost the initial combat.

Okay, please explain this rule for the slow kid in the class. Imagine that you are talking to a complete noob. How does this rule function?

Take it slow, line by line, as if you were playing a game and applying the rules.

I'm super frustrated by this rule! Argh.

Hmmm i'll try.

1) space marines and opponent fighting in CC
2) space marines loose ( can't be just imagined in this example )
3) space marines take test and fail OR willfully fail ( marneus calgar commands it )
4) space marines fall back to regroup
5) opponent follows with sweeping advance and is fast enough to catch them
6) usual unit would be destroyed, but not the emperors finest. Another cc-engagement occurs.
7) at this second CC fight, space marines are subject to "no retreat".
normally, special rules add "no retreat" to a unit. ( fearless, vows ).
-codex SM units can get this rule from their ATSKNF rule as secondary effect.
9) second cc is resolved normally, but SM didn't take a test and can't fall back. Just fight to the death.
10) If the SM loose, they get additional wounds similar to the result ( lost by 2 = 2 wounds ).
11) wounds from "no retreat" may be saved ( armorsave, invulsave ), no cover save!
12) in a draw, the fight goes on.

And do not believe those who claim they can win against Space marines, thats all evil xenos/traitor propaganda.

Man!

Its deceptively simple. Its all in the wording. Thanks Fhadhq!

Also, it gets confused with fearless!

Lastly, I get confused sometimes with the rulebook, it always seems like they mix fluff with hard and fast rules, the combination definately confuzzles me.

Your certainly not the only one and i doubt you'll be the last my friend, but that's what we're here for! =)

i interpret the rule slightly different, the "no retreat" comes in effect when the unit would be destroyed.
because of this rule it only has to take some armor saves. in the next cc the unit is not fearless or anything else.

so it would be like that:

1) space marines and opponent fighting in CC
2) space marines loose ( can't be just imagined in this example )
3) space marines take test and fail OR willfully fail ( marneus calgar commands it or combat tactics do)
4) space marines fall back to regroup
5) opponent follows with sweeping advance and is fast enough to catch them
6) usual unit would be destroyed, but not the emperors finest. because at this point the "no retreat" rule comes into affect and the marines are treatet as a fearless unit for this combat round. (they have to take the armor saves but are not destroyed)
7) at the next cc fight (next players turn) the marines fight normally and take a normal morale test if they loose again.

that is why atsknf is fearless+ because you have the chance to escape without taking wounds...


~hagg